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Post by Encore64 on Aug 8, 2016 12:34:03 GMT -5
I'll admit I do some crazy things with guns. But, in the end, I believe if you want a bigger gun then buy a bigger gun.
The 45 Colt is my number one and has been since 1983 when I bought my first.
But, there are so many fine choices of big revolvers these days, I no longer push the old warhorse past 32,000 psi.
As always, to each his own.
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Post by singleaction on Aug 8, 2016 16:22:54 GMT -5
I don't know what it costs to procure a Maximum cylinder, have shortened, fitted and rechambered but it can't be cheap. Somehow I think I'd rather spend a little more and get an oversized cylinder for the added strength, along with the linebored chambers that go with it. Particularly in the .45Colt, where it starts running out of steam over 330gr at 32,000psi. Having a little extra room to get those 360gr bullets to 1200-1300fps might be preferable. If you 'need' 360's, you 'need' all you can get. If all you're doing is killin' deer and hogs, then obviously a standard six shot is plenty. From Brian Pierce in Handloader #292 October-November 2014. These are 32k psi loads fired from a 5.5" factory SS Bisley with throats opened to .4525": (Please don't use this data without verifying it with the original source!) 360 TrueShot WNFP-GC Hodgdon H-110 23.0 1267 primer: CCI 350 360 TrueShot WNFP-GC Alliant Power Pro 300-MP 24.0 1298 primer: CCI 300 360 TrueShot WNFP-GC Accurate AAC-9 20.0 1255 primer: CCI 300 Some folks claim that Brian Pierce's "Ruger only" data in his 45 Colt articles is too hot. I'm not qualified to say one way or the other, but I've used the above mentioned H110 load without issue. I would not hesitate to go after Elk, Moose, Bison, or guided Brown/Grizzly with any of the above mentioned loads. Interestingly, Brian Pierce's 50k psi Redhawk data from Handloader #292 October-November 2014 is only one grain higher for H110 and Alliant PP 300-MP and 1.5 grains higher for AAC-9. It goes to show that one should be really carefull when loading at the "Ruger only" limit. For me, this is a good reason to have a five shot, as just one extra grain can put the needle in the red.
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shorty500
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Post by shorty500 on Aug 8, 2016 19:43:43 GMT -5
Very small step-ups in powder charge drastically increase pressures in the old warhorse, bullet seating depth affects powder capacity and comes into play also. Haven't ever seen any pressure data for my favorite 360grain slug but wouldn't be suprised if the actual pressure is much lower than I actually treat the load. But it will only fit in FA, Redhawks etcif properly crimped in crimp groove
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Snyd
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Post by Snyd on Aug 8, 2016 20:12:39 GMT -5
At some point with the heavy (350ish +) 45's and higher pressure the issue becomes crimp jump. This will depend on the gun and other things obviously. For my 4" Redhawk it's 355gr at 1300fps. I have a 454 Cylinder in it and this load is in 454 brass but from looking at 5 shot 45 Colt data I'm about there pressure wise. Just a SWAG though regarding pressure. 25.5gr LilGun is 1325. I can shoot 12 before they move much at 1300. Can't remember how much, I don't have my notes in front of me. 27gr H110 is about 1275. I've shot up to 27.0 LilGun to 1400 but can only shoot a couple before they jump crimp. Ruger only 45 Colt load with same boolit is 1100. I picked up 200fps in the 4" gun by going with the 5 shot pressure load. That's quite a bit, enough to make a difference I'd think. So, is the 5 shot 45 Colt worth it? If you can load it to 5 shot pressure with your 350+ gr boolit and not have crimp jump then yes. If not, no. If you don't care about shooting heavy boolits at high pressure then maybe. It depends on what a guy wants. If I were going to buy a 45 Colt custom of sorts right now I'd probably buy this Gallagher gun. If I had and extra $6000 laying around and the donor gun I'd have a Linebaugh 5 Shot 45 Colt with Brass Grip frame just because! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Paden
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Post by Paden on Aug 9, 2016 0:54:17 GMT -5
If I was ever to commission another custom it would be a six shot .45 Colt on a Blackhawk frame. I'm perfectly happy with what can be done with a 6-holer, and don't see any practical advantage to a 5-holer.
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Post by CraigC on Aug 9, 2016 1:07:48 GMT -5
I don't know what it costs to procure a Maximum cylinder, have shortened, fitted and rechambered but it can't be cheap. Somehow I think I'd rather spend a little more and get an oversized cylinder for the added strength, along with the linebored chambers that go with it. Particularly in the .45Colt, where it starts running out of steam over 330gr at 32,000psi. Having a little extra room to get those 360gr bullets to 1200-1300fps might be preferable. If you 'need' 360's, you 'need' all you can get. If all you're doing is killin' deer and hogs, then obviously a standard six shot is plenty. From Brian Pierce in Handloader #292 October-November 2014. These are 32k psi loads fired from a 5.5" factory SS Bisley with throats opened to .4525": (Please don't use this data without verifying it with the original source!) 360 TrueShot WNFP-GC Hodgdon H-110 23.0 1267 primer: CCI 350 360 TrueShot WNFP-GC Alliant Power Pro 300-MP 24.0 1298 primer: CCI 300 360 TrueShot WNFP-GC Accurate AAC-9 20.0 1255 primer: CCI 300 Some folks claim that Brian Pierce's "Ruger only" data in his 45 Colt articles is too hot. I'm not qualified to say one way or the other, but I've used the above mentioned H110 load without issue. I would not hesitate to go after Elk, Moose, Bison, or guided Brown/Grizzly with any of the above mentioned loads. Interestingly, Brian Pierce's 50k psi Redhawk data from Handloader #292 October-November 2014 is only one grain higher for H110 and Alliant PP 300-MP and 1.5 grains higher for AAC-9. It goes to show that one should be really carefull when loading at the "Ruger only" limit. For me, this is a good reason to have a five shot, as just one extra grain can put the needle in the red. The Hodgdon data tops out at 21.0gr H110 with the CPBC 360gr and I get 1060fps out of a 4 5/8" custom Bisley Vaquero.
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Snyd
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Post by Snyd on Aug 9, 2016 1:22:00 GMT -5
The Hodgdon data tops out at 21.0gr H110 with the CPBC 360gr and I get 1060fps out of a 4 5/8" custom Bisley Vaquero. I cast a 355gr wfn that allows a little more case capacity than the CP 360gr. I've settled at 21.5gr H110. It's 1200fps in my 45 Colt BisHunter (avatar pic). I have loaded/shot a few at 22gr and it's 1275ish. I backed it off to 21.5. No need to push it.
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Post by CraigC on Aug 9, 2016 12:17:56 GMT -5
I've got some of the Trueshot 360's but haven't got around to comparing them to the CPBC yet. Maybe it takes up a wee bit less case capacity.
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Post by bushog on Aug 9, 2016 12:45:22 GMT -5
I'd still rather have a mid-frame 5 shot in .45 Colt..........
I have bigger bores if I need more.
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Post by CraigC on Aug 9, 2016 13:09:34 GMT -5
That's the catch, building a five-shot .45 costs the same as a .475 or .500, unless you re-use the factory barrel. Either of which would give you a lot more monster mashing gusto at the other end than a faster .45. If you really 'need' 360's, you probably 'need' a .475.
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Snyd
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Post by Snyd on Aug 9, 2016 14:37:46 GMT -5
That's the catch, building a five-shot .45 costs the same as a .475 or .500, unless you re-use the factory barrel. Either of which would give you a lot more monster mashing gusto at the other end than a faster .45. If you really 'need' 360's, you probably 'need' a .475.Or a .510 ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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princeout
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Post by princeout on Aug 9, 2016 17:01:53 GMT -5
Can't say I really "need" any of them, but I like having them all! "Tite" cylindered 6 shot OM 45, Bisley gripped OM 45, large framed NM 5 shot 45, birdshead NM large framed Vaquero 45, consecutive SN large framed Stainless Vaquero 45's , 5 shot mid frame 45 (can you see a pattern here with 45's). I also like the bigger bores, 480 SBH, 475 Linebaugh, 50 GI 5 shot mid frame, 500 Linebaughs and 500 Linebaugh Max.
Pick your poison. All can be loaded 'Ruger Only' loads, some hotter still. All can be loaded down with TrailBoss and my youngsters can shoot them. Just like horsepower, you don't have to use all of it all the time, but when you want it, it's good to have it.
Tim
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Post by 500fksjr on Aug 9, 2016 17:12:29 GMT -5
Can't say I really "need" any of them, but I like having them all! "Tite" cylindered 6 shot OM 45, Bisley gripped OM 45, large framed NM 5 shot 45, birdshead NM large framed Vaquero 45, consecutive SN large framed Stainless Vaquero 45's , 5 shot mid frame 45 (can you see a pattern here with 45's). I also like the bigger bores, 480 SBH, 475 Linebaugh, 50 GI 5 shot mid frame, 500 Linebaughs and 500 Linebaugh Max. Pick your poison. All can be loaded 'Ruger Only' loads, some hotter still. All can be loaded down with TrailBoss and my youngsters can shoot them. Just like horsepower, you don't have to use all of it all the time, but when you want it, it's good to have it. Tim AMEN Brother!!!!
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Post by CraigC on Aug 9, 2016 18:19:25 GMT -5
To me the attraction of a five-shot or oversized six-shot .45 would be just to have a very accurate, properly built .45 with an added safety margin.
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Post by bushog on Aug 9, 2016 22:40:27 GMT -5
So, I think there has been some blurring the line about oversized....
There is oversized (larger diameter) and a long cylinder that is the same diameter as a factory 6 shot cylinder.
The thread started with a question about Arokcrwlr's gun which has a long but not oversized cylinder...
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