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Post by Quick Draw McGraw on Jun 10, 2016 14:33:45 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I want a lever action and one that could P possibly defend against the biggest Grizzlies (Alaskan). I was eye-balling a Henry .45-70 as I've heard Marlin's quality is still on-the-mend. But their guide gun holds 2 more rounds (6+1). And Rossi makes a .454 Casull lever that to me would be awesome considering it could pack ten rounds. Bit I hear Rossi isn't as good as the other two. What do you guys think? Also, what about a lever action in .44 Mag or .45 Colt shooting super hot loads. Would it be enough?
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Post by cherokeetracker on Jun 10, 2016 15:58:21 GMT -5
Quick Draw,, The older Marlins are hard to beat. I would not want a new one. A 45-70 will take down a lot of critters including a big Grizzly, and it's been proven many times.
When you get into pistol cartridges a lot is going to depend upon your load. The Garrett 405RHO ( Red Hawk Only ) is on par with the 45-70 but I am thinking that it is going to be a Marlin only load. I have shot it out of a Marlin and let me tell you, It is a powerful cartridge. It brings the 45 up to a new level. IMO
1 Henry No experience with it so far. Know someone with a 30-30 but that is it. Went to the LGS to buy a 41 mag but they wanted 850.00 for it. NO-GO The Henry seems to be well made, and I do know that it is heavy. Quality should be there. They are nicely finished and the fit has been pretty good.
I am very much against a Tube magazine that you have to feed by removing the tube. If I want to reload fast then I want to be able to load one or two more cartridges and Keep shooting, or try something else. But I certainly don't want to have some tube hanging out of a gun making it inoperable.
With a 22 this is OK but for a Dangerous Game gun,,, I don't think so.
2 Rossi 45 Caliber I like mine a lot, and I am quite sure that I would NOT be able to use a 405 RHO cartridge in the Rossi. But what I do know, is that a 360 grain will work, and I have shot them and 335 grain cartridges. and if that is all I had and need to use it I would. It saddens me that I have not been able to try it out on a grown Hog or something. They both have been accurate with my Trapper.
3. 44 mag rifles. My experience was not the greatest with the 44 mag in a rifle. ( Not bad mouthing it) Other folks like it, But I will stay with my 45 cal. Remember you can do the same or even better with a 45 than a 44. I did not really want to shoot lighter bullets out of the 44. I like a 300-310 grain sometimes, and the 44 rifle did not seem to want to oblige me.
Actions: The action and the way that the Marlin is made for a side eject VS the top eject makes for a stronger action.
Twist rates : Under most circumstances this could be ignored. The only time you are going to need to consider twist rate, is IF, You decide to go with a pistol cartridge in a rifle, and you want the maximum Bullet and load possible. Why do I say this?? Because if shooting a heavy for caliber bullet in a slower twist rifle, just may NOT give you the accuracy you want or need. Personal experience with 44 magnum and 500 S&W They both have a new Home.
Charles
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Post by jimtx on Jun 10, 2016 16:30:17 GMT -5
I am a little opposite of Cherokee, with the 44 mag levers my current is a win 94 AE, with my Leadhead HC 250SWC rounds it,s accurate with open sights I changed the front to a 3/32 Ivory bead you can pick up quick in the woods and I can load them in pistol length/rifle length. When I get into speer 300gr PSP then it depends on pistol or rifle length but any GS can open up the Win to accept long loaded rounds like 320+. Mine functions great with no issues, I also like a trapper in 45LC with 310+ LBT's or WFN's it's devastating little power package, the 454 Rossi is ok I almost bought a couple for as little as $325.00 but not crazy about them and a properly handloaded 44 or 45 in a trapper or marlin 1894 is tough to beat, little compact holds a lot of rounds with a lot of penetration bear stopping power, that's why I never bought a 454, with my handloads I can take anything with my 44mag or 45LC rifle or pistol. I also use a 1968 Ruger 44mag carbine with speer 300 psp. |
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Post by BigBore44 on Jun 10, 2016 19:06:51 GMT -5
Getcha an older Guide gun and you'll have all the penetration and accuracy you will need.
I have had 3 at one time and still own 2 a 1895GS and a 1895CB, and Both are very accurate. I use a home brewed 430gr clone of the BT PileDriver Jr., and It has all the OOOOmph (Penetration) I should ever need...  Loaded with a good dose of Universal (about 14.0gr iirc, DONT Have my notes at hand so DONT Go By This!!!) Its easy on the shooter but Not on the critters!!!
If you look for one go with either a Ported Guide Gun (Rem never made a ported version) or one with a Serial# that STARTS WITH 92 (2008) or higher Up to about 02 (1998)....
I forget what year they started to make the Guide Guns, but I believe it was 1998/99 approx.), and you DONT want a Ser# that starts with MR!!!!
I also love the 44 leverguns, I have two of the 1894CB's and they are also Very accurate.... These are also used with a BT clone, Accurate mold 43-265M shot unsized @ .432/.433 actual... I Love me some 44's and 45-70! Anything that begins with a 4 Is Juuuust Right...
Hope this helps... 
BigBore44
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Post by toroflow on Jun 10, 2016 21:48:04 GMT -5
I'd look at a Winchester Bigbore 94 "Timber carbine" in .444 Marlin, 18.5" ported barrel. Short and lightweight (like a Ruger 10-22) and can digest stout Buffalo Bore 444 loads. These Winchester actions are stronger than the Marlins; here is an article by Paco Kelly: www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444_misunderstood.htmTo quote him: The loadings for the 444 in the Marlin rifle (we will look at the very strong Winchester Big Bore in this caliber later on..) are in Lee’s book pages 653 thru 656 and he keeps the loads pressures within the 40,000+ psi and cup ranges because of the Marlin action. The Winchester Big Bore action can easily go to 50,000 psi and as we will see that makes a big difference in velocity and power. The anomaly of the 444 came along when Winchester chambered their Big Bore 94 action for the round. Ammo companies and reloading books had gotten comfortable giving out 1800 to 2100 fps loads. Which were light even for the Marlin action rated at 40,000+ cup. So along come the Winchester BB action rated at 50,000 cup. And over the last few years as I have written of the much higher ballistics of the Winchester 444, I have run into the critics with all the old jargon. I have a had number of folks tell me the case head on the 444 is to large for 50,000 cup. One so called knowledgeable person actually didn’t know the big bore Winchester ‘94 was rated for much higher pressure than the Marlin 336 or the standard Winchester 94. It can be understood when we realize most gun writers don’t do much with leverguns. And believe what they read. The exceptions of course are Venterino and Taffin and a very few others. When I suggest that I can push the 250 grain Nosler at 2470 fps with 54 grains of ReL #7 for 3388 ft. lbs. of energy and well under 50,000 cup they cringe. Well imagine what they do when I tell them 52 grains of H4198 pushes the same bullet over 2600 fps and 3900 ft.lbs of muzzle energy! Or how about a 330 grain cast bullet over 55 grains of H-335 giving 2262 fps and 3750 ft.lbs. of muzzle energy. The fast twist in the Winchester Big Bore will handle it....  And another article: www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm |
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450ak
.30 Stingray
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Post by 450ak on Jun 11, 2016 12:53:33 GMT -5
The 500 Smith and Wesson lever gun makes a great hammer. 450 Keith gas check at 1900 is quite a killer/stopper. We've gotten it up to 2000fps but it's a stout load. Lilgun is your friend.
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Post by toroflow on Jun 11, 2016 13:51:38 GMT -5
The 500 Smith and Wesson lever gun makes a great hammer. 450 Keith gas check at 1900 is quite a killer/stopper. We've gotten it up to 2000fps but it's a stout load. Lilgun is your friend. Hammers your pocketbook too, at $2600+ for a new model 89!!! |
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Post by nolongcolt on Jun 11, 2016 16:35:46 GMT -5
I have the older Marlin 1895 MR 22" bbl. version .450 Marlin which would certainly fill the bill. And no its not really any better than the .45-70, just loaded hotter in factory loads. What one will do, the other will do. I don't think I would opt for the .454, .45 Colt or .44 mags as a bear stopper, though certainly better than nothing. Regarding Paco Kelly's recommendations, I have a copy of his Lever Actions book and he certainly does wring out any potential maximum loads out of just about everything, but he often goes where angels fear to tread.
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joej
.30 Stingray
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Posts: 352
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Post by joej on Jun 12, 2016 14:28:51 GMT -5
I've got the Marlin, 450 Marlin as well. If I could have a redo - I would go with the Henry 45-70. It's no joy loading that Marlin with those large cartridges. The tube loading Henry is definitely the way to go. As for the quality - they all will have a lemon or two but unless you are real unlucky, they'll all hold up just fine.
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Post by BigBore44 on Jun 13, 2016 14:41:10 GMT -5
The 500 Smith and Wesson lever gun makes a great hammer. 450 Keith gas check at 1900 is quite a killer/stopper. We've gotten it up to 2000fps but it's a stout load. Lilgun is your friend. Hammers your pocketbook too, at $2600+ for a new model 89!!! OOOOOPPPHHH!!!!! ??  
I'll stick with my 45-70 thank you.... After a certain point velocity deducts from penetration anyhow, Soooo, my Old Slow 430gr 45 will do All that I Need!
Besides, How Dead is DEAD???
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jun 13, 2016 15:14:20 GMT -5
I still have not bought a Henry yet, so I can't comment, other than I still want one... I was reading an article in a handloader magazine... the author wanted to take a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 to Africa, there were several bullet loads available in the article... I tried some, in my Stainless Guide gun, & actually knocked off the factory rear sight... not surprising, since the author said he killed 2 cape buffalo with one shot, killing the bull he intended to shoot, but also a cow standing behind the bull... I think a warm load from a 45-70, would be the lever that would keep me warm in Alaska... BTW... I have a custom 50-AE lever gun, that holds pistol capacities, & kept knocking off the fore arm after the conversion, unlil we glass bedded it among other things... turned a sweet shooting 44 magnum, into a beast that kicks as much as my guide gun... I still think I'd take my 45-70 for reliability, rather than the higher capacity of the 50... A Kodiak Brown is on my bucket list... I'd admit to chickening out of hunting with the 45-70, & would use my bolt action 338 Win Mag, as a hunting rifle... but the Guide gun would be my camp carbine  |
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Post by BigBore44 on Jun 13, 2016 15:29:04 GMT -5
MagWM A Kodiak/Brown is on my Bucket list too. If you want I can go with you and I can be your backup!!! I'd also take my Kimber 338WM and my 1895GS. Cant go wrong with that pair, and I bet it beats a full house ANY Day.... BB44 Sidearm would be either a 44mag or 45/454 SRH... |
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4597
.30 Stingray
Posts: 182 
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Post by 4597 on Jun 13, 2016 20:56:45 GMT -5
I would go with an older Marlin with either a 405gr or 430gr Hard cast Bullet. Been around forever and is a proven Winner. Would not hurt to have a .44mag, 45 Colt, or a .454 on your side.
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on Jun 14, 2016 21:30:46 GMT -5
Groo here
Just picked up a Rossi M-92 16in in 357 and 44mag in SS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Light weight.good trigger, Smoooth, easy to work on.
The 44 with a 320SSK boolet should hit 1500 plus [ need to work up on that one as the gun weights 4.8 lb!!!!!!!!]
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Post by mbaneacp on Jun 22, 2016 2:31:45 GMT -5
My old pal Carlos Martinez is now in charge of the Rem/Marlin custom shop. Carlos is one of the good guys. At NRA He showed me some hi-zoot tactical rifles, them -- be still my beating heart -- custom 45/70 Guide Guns. Not in full production yet, but I nearly throttled Carlos ordering on on the spot. He laughed and told me I was already on the list.
I can't wait!
I'm building a .338 Scout ouf of a Ruger Frontier and hopefully some different bottom metal. There's a Tennessee boar and a Texas whitetail with my name on them. Figured that'd do the trick.
The custom Marlin goes to Africa next year, unless OUTDOOR CHANNEL gets fed up with me being right a lot more than I'm wrong...LOL'
Michael B
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