H&R/NEF Rifles

[nobearsyet]

I have been bouncing around trying my hand at BPCR silhouette since I moved to AZ and they actually shoot it down here. I shot a match with my Handi Rifle in 45-70, and with my custom 405 grain semi spitzer over 70 grs. black by volume was having trouble knocking things over at the farthest rack, although I did hear them ting when hit. I was wondering if one of the Buffalo Classics could be had and rechambered into a 45-120 for a little more oomph? Anybody have a drawing of a 45-120 case for reference?

[wickerbill]

You like pain, don't you. Just kidding. You need a heavier bullet to take down rams reliablyn, not more powder. I shoot a 535gr Hock out of my Sharps. I dought if your handy rifle has the twist rate to handle that size bullet.
Bill

[nobearsyet]

I was thinking more on the lines of a rechamber and and adding enough lead to it to make it maximum allowable weight and not killing the balance. I was thinking the extra velocity might help knock them down.

[TEXASFIVEGUN]

A heavier bullet will beat extra velocity at knocking down steel with ease.

[nobearsyet]

Any suggestions? Maybe something paper patched? Not a lot of black powder reloading data available around here, but for that matter wouldn't a really heavy bullet eat up case capacity?

[wickerbill]

Ok then, it's time for black powder cartrage loading 101. First question, What kind of powder are you shooting. If it's goex or elephant brands, they need to be compressed. If it's goex cartrage grade, it dosen't need as much compression. If it's swiss, it needs no compression.

The amount of powder that goes into the case, depends on the type of powder, the method that you put the powder in the case(funnel or drop tube) and the depth that the bullet is seated in the case.

How deep you seat the bullet, depends on how much leed there is in the throat of the chamber. Youb can see that this gets sort of convaluted.

The size of the bullet is dictated by the what twist is in the barrel. In other words, if you tell me what you have, I can tell you how to load it.

The bottom line is, TEXASFIVEGUN was right. If you want to knock down steel at longer ranges, vellocity isn't the anser, more bullet mass is needed. I don't know what the twist of your barrel is, but I'm guessing it's not a 1:18. That means you will never stablize a five-hunder grain or above bullets.
Bill

[the priest]

nobears,

I'm thinking that if you call the maker,....they'll put together a barrel with a custom twist for you.

[nobearsyet]

I'm actually shooting Pyroex FFFG as I was told that FFFG is what the military used in there original loading for the 45-70, and as far as twist rate goes I have no idea.

[the priest]

your twist, unless something changed, is 1:20

[nobearsyet]

Thanks, I will take your word for it, I just took a new job and haven't had time to mess with anything this week.

[wickerbill]

If you haven't ever checked a barrel for twist rate, here is an ease way to do it.

Take Sharpie and draw a straight line down the lenth of your cleaning rod. Now, using the combonation of a tight jag and patch, insert it into the barrel about three inches past the end of the chamber. (JUST MAKE SURE IT IS FULLY INGAGED IN THE RIFLEING) If you don't start with the line on your cleaning rod straight up, you need to put a witness mark on the barrel to indicate where you started. Before you start putting start pushing the rod thru the barrel, put a mark purpendicular to the long line of the rod, right where in goes in the barrel.

This part is importent. Push the rod down the barrel slowly, so the patch follows the rifleing and dosn't slip over them. Push the patch thru till the line on the cleaning rod comes back to the starting point. Put another mark across the long line where it meet the barrel.

Pull the rod out and measure the distance between the line. That is your twist rate.
Bill

[nobearsyet]

I have in fact checked twist rate before, I've never done it to this rifle. But yes it is a 1:20, any loading suggextions?

[wickerbill]

That means a 400 gr bullet is about as heavy as you can go.
Bill

[nobearsyet]

Crap, anybody had any success with the 400 or s ograin bullets on steel? Wait, why am I asking that anyways? My Handi-rifle isn't actually within the rules, they let me shoot it because they said I would need more help than it would provide. And they were right. That's why I was asking about the Buffalo Classic, it's within the rules and was thinking it would work better, but I was curious about rechambering it to get more velocity and thereby a flatter trajectory on the rams.

[wickerbill]

I don't know what rules they are operating under, but I don't believe that the Buffalo Classic fits under NRA rules either. It's got to be a falling or rotating block with external hammer. That prity well limits the guns to Sharps 74's and 75's, Win. 85's, Ballard's, Steven's 44 1/2's, Rem. rolling blocks and Springfield trapdoors. If you are considering getting another rifle, be carefully of some of the Italian guns. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the Italian guns(I shoot a Pedrasolli Sharps 74), but some of them have slow twist barrels, which would put you in the same boat your in now. If you get a 45 cal, get a 18 twist, if you get a 40 cal, get a 16 twist.

Take it from someone that has played this game for a while. Extra velocity is not the answer. You need more bullet and a tang sight.

Again, I'm sorry to be the bairer of bad new and I'm not trying to be a hard a**. But your formula will not work.
Bill