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Post by northerngos on Feb 23, 2024 18:29:55 GMT -5
Ah… I’m late to the party. Reading back more throughly it is apparent that this smacks of a trolling expedition.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 23, 2024 18:33:09 GMT -5
so all the hype about Garret, Buffalo Bore, Double tap, to name a few, or any HARD cast is BS, correct? ! ROGER THAT ! NOW you can see being pulled back and forth with OPINIONS.. OR all the write ups in Lymans manuals over the years, about certain harnesses needed for reliable expansions and penetration. Who's right and who's wrong? 10 - 11 BHN for a thick skinned game like that?? When all I ever heard of penetrating them was with solids. I think you are confusing hard and tough. Garrett is an example of a maker who loses a lot of profit margin to their insistence in using an alloy that is as hard as it can be without fracturing on hard bone. Because they care most about performance. They use an extremely tough alloy. so at 25 BHN how much harder does it take to shatter ?
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 23, 2024 18:36:14 GMT -5
I have put Mr. Keith's bullets through large animals at about every angle you can imagine. I have failed to recover two animals. Both were shot with jacketed bullets.
One was a whitetail I trailed for about 75yds and lost track of. 5 days later I killed it with a Keith bullet through the lungs. The jacketed hp had broken up on the shoulder, failing to penetrate. The wound was severely infected.
Next was a black bear of around 350 pounds. I shot it in the lung with a Speer 250gr soft nose from a 44mag at around 30ft. It headed out for parts unknown. The blood I did find was bright and frothy, so I know at least one lung was hit.
Jacketed bullets are not magical. In fact there are many cast designs that out perform them soundly.
If you have spent any real time handgun hunting, you would already know this. If you had any experience with dangerous game, you would already have a pretty good idea what it takes to stop a charge or other attack. Do you hunt?
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Post by webber on Feb 23, 2024 18:39:30 GMT -5
If anyone will look at the Redhawk thread one will see a train wreck coming around the curve.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 23, 2024 18:48:07 GMT -5
I have put Mr. Keith's bullets through large animals at about every angle you can imagine. I have failed to recover two animals. Both were shot with jacketed bullets. One was a whitetail I trailed for about 75yds and lost track of. 5 days later I killed it with a Keith bullet through the lungs. The jacketed hp had broken up on the shoulder, failing to penetrate. The wound was severely infected. Next was a black bear of around 350 pounds. I shot it in the lung with a Speer 250gr soft nose from a 44mag at around 30ft. It headed out for parts unknown. The blood I did find was bright and frothy, so I know at least one lung was hit. Jacketed bullets are not magical. In fact there are many cast designs that out perform them soundly. If you have spent any real time handgun hunting, you would already know this. If you had any experience with dangerous game, you would already have a pretty good idea what it takes to stop a charge or other attack. Do you hunt? The only problem with your field experience is that you didn't mention what I'm concerned about have you? Others have and answered my question in a short order with ONE post. Carry on.
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ideal
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 69
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Post by ideal on Feb 23, 2024 19:17:47 GMT -5
Actually Mr. Keith did use a much stronger bullet by using 16:1 alloy. With no antimony or arsenic, his alloy was very pliable. Truth!
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 23, 2024 19:20:30 GMT -5
Well apparently you were.not getting it in a brief reply.
You want it short? Okay. After 40+ years of hunting and guiding for black bear, I have learned big bears don't climb up to see what is in a tree stand. Juveniles do.
So kick the nosey bastard in the face and it will leave you alone.
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ideal
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 69
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Post by ideal on Feb 23, 2024 19:28:32 GMT -5
I think you are confusing hard and tough. Garrett is an example of a maker who loses a lot of profit margin to their insistence in using an alloy that is as hard as it can be without fracturing on hard bone. Because they care most about performance. They use an extremely tough alloy. so at 25 BHN how much harder does it take to shatter ? It's not what you do, it's how you do it. I'm now pretty certain you are not an experienced bullet caster. there are different procedures to strengthen lead based alloys and not leave them frangible. It's not just a dash of this, and a dab of that.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 23, 2024 19:30:38 GMT -5
took ya long enough to give that answer.
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ideal
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 69
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Post by ideal on Feb 23, 2024 19:33:59 GMT -5
took ya long enough to give that answer. Please elaborate on your preferred methods of strengthening lead based alloys to achieve high usable bhn. I'm here to learn.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 23, 2024 19:41:18 GMT -5
You aren’t too bright or you’re just being sarcastic
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Post by revolvercranker on Feb 23, 2024 20:18:05 GMT -5
ideal, one way to raise the BHN without making the bullet brittle when you're using tearnary alloy is to heat treat them.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 23, 2024 20:22:49 GMT -5
ideal, one way to raise the BHN without making the bullet brittle when you're using tearnary alloy is to heat treat them. are you speaking from experience ?
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Post by revolvercranker on Feb 23, 2024 20:28:10 GMT -5
ideal, one way to raise the BHN without making the bullet brittle when you're using tearnary alloy is to heat treat them. are you speaking from experience ? Yes
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 23, 2024 20:44:03 GMT -5
are you speaking from experience ? Yes instead of leaving us hanging, let's hear it.
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