Will 500JRH w/400 gr solid do frontal brain shot on elephant

[jb500]

The 475 Linebaugh will penetrate deep enough for a frontal brain shot on an elephant: 4 inches of skin/soft tissue, followed by 20 inches of bone to reach the grapefruit. However, 47 caliber is known for very deep penetration in both magnum handguns and dangerous game rifles, aka 470 nitro express. Question: worded better here: will a 500 JRH with a 400 grain monolithic solid (aka Cutting Edge or Lehigh flatness copper bullet) at approx 1400-1450 fps be able to penetrate enough for frontal as opposed to side head shots on elephant? 

[bigbore5]

Strange things often happen, especially when you are dealing with thick skin and bones, but yes elephants have been taken with the 500 jrh and the Linebaugh with frontal brain shots.

However, unless you need to stop a charge, I would avoid it in favor of the side brain. Most of the problem animals (3) I have seen removed were heart shot, with only one being shot head on as it charged the PH.

However only one of those 4 were healthy. It was the one that charged and was being removed after having killed a farm worker. A bull in musk is extremely dangerous.

[45MAN]

ON MY ELEPHANT HUNT IN ZIMBABWE (IIRC IN 2005) I WAS USING AN OVERLY WIDE MEPLAT FMJ CORBON 305gr PENETRATOR IN MY FA 454. I STUDIED AND STUDIED THE SIDE BRAIN SHOT BUT WHEN THE TIME CAME TO SHOOT ONLY A FRONTAL WAS AVAILABLE. I HIT THE BULL BUT DID NOT DROP HIM, THEN, AS THE BULL TURNED AND RAN, THE PH TRIED TO BREAK HIS HIP WITH A 400gr 416 RIGBY BUT GUTTED HIM. TRACKED HIM/LOOKED FOR HIM FOR DAYS BUT NEVER GOT HIM, AND THERE WENT A $10,000 TROPHY FEE AND NO TROPHY.

DO NOT KNOW IF THE BULLET WAS WELL PLACED BUT DID NOT PENETRATE ENOUGH, OR WHAT. I BELIEVE THAT BULLET's MEPLAT WAS TOOO WIDE, IMPEDING PENETRATION, BUT WITHOUT THE SKULL I WILL NEVER KNOW.

WITH ANY REVOLVER, A FRONTAL BRAIN SHOT WOULD NOT BE MY FIRST NOR SECOND CHOICE.

[hunter01]

Jan 24, 2024 3:52:05 GMT -5 jb500 said:

The 475 Linebaugh will penetrate deep enough for a frontal brain shot on an elephant: 4 inches of skin/soft tissue, followed by 20 inches of bone to reach the grapefruit. However, 47 caliber is known for very deep penetration in both magnum handguns and dangerous game rifles, aka 470 nitro express. Question: worded better here: will a 500 JRH with a 400 grain monolithic solid (aka Cutting Edge or Lehigh flatness copper bullet) at approx 1400-1450 fps be able to penetrate enough for frontal as opposed to side head shots on elephant? 

I have no idea the answer to your question, but I’d love the opportunity to find out. Id think 45man is on the right track with meplate. This is definitely a scenario where less would be more!

[magnumwheelman]

while I can certainly understand a wide meplat not penetrating "as" much, aren't they supposed to be more consistent, on penetrating, in a straight line... I thought I remember reading, that more pointed, & round nose bullets had a better chance of "wandering" during penetration???

[hunter01]

Jan 24, 2024 8:41:04 GMT -5 magnumwheelman said:

while I can certainly understand a wide meplat not penetrating "as" much, aren't they supposed to be more consistent, on penetrating, in a straight line... I thought I remember reading, that more pointed, & round nose bullets had a better chance of "wandering" during penetration???

Don’t know the answer to this either. 😂
It does make sense to me that a narrow steering wheel would wander much easier though.

[bula]

I've gleaned from various threads here, things shared, that there is a tipping point where more meplat is too much. Those gleaned from, will hopefully chime in. 

[bigbrowndog]

In my opinion can the stated load perform as wished,…..Yes. It’s the WILL IT, that falls into question. There are far too many variables, placement, range, impact velocity, elephant attitude, actual internal construction and aspect of head, etc. to give a definitive answer. Others here have mentioned it not being an optimum angle, and an overall tough shot.

Trapr

[bigbore5]

The 400gr solid copper bullets are very deep penetrators, but I still prefer a heavier bullet the more I think about it. Even then I wouldn't set up for the frontal brain shots.

My African rifles are a 416 Rigby or a 475NE double, and I felt lightly armed when I was just there to backup the boss!

[aciera]

Jan 24, 2024 12:11:31 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

The 400gr solid copper bullets are very deep penetrators, but I still prefer a heavier bullet the more I think about it. Even then I wouldn't set up for the frontal brain shots.

My African rifles are a 416 Rigby or a 475NE double, and I felt lightly armed when I was just there to backup the boss!

I imagine that would be a strange feeling.

I can chime in a little.

Otto Candies was a hunter. Hunted elephant a lot.

When John Linebaugh was in Missouri there was discussion about standing down an elephant with a frontal brain shot.

“I want to feel just as confident with a pistol as I do with my 470 double”

And he was talking about pointing his arm up to shoot the elephant……not level.

Danger close.

475 Maximum was the choice. Shooting it off the bench John said”stay awake”. Lol I did…….John let me test shoot all the guns before shipping……what a good friend. Lol

Otto is gone. The Maximum went to a friend of mine Tom Ordes. Who passed unexpectedly recently. Tom was a Big Bore Junkie. Had a 4 Bore double………miss him.

Otto was Tom’s Mentor. Hunted Alaska and Africa together. Tom helped me identify the picture with Otto’s big brown bear……and the gun.

Tom still owes me a beer……….

The load was with a cut down solid 475 solid. And it worked.

But I ramble…….

[bigbore5]

The 475 Maximum is a biy different. It's shown it's abilities to out penetrate many classic African cartridges.

[weiler]

Jan 24, 2024 17:07:19 GMT -5 aciera said:

Jan 24, 2024 12:11:31 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

The 400gr solid copper bullets are very deep penetrators, but I still prefer a heavier bullet the more I think about it. Even then I wouldn't set up for the frontal brain shots.

My African rifles are a 416 Rigby or a 475NE double, and I felt lightly armed when I was just there to backup the boss!

I imagine that would be a strange feeling.

I can chime in a little.

Otto Candies was a hunter. Hunted elephant a lot.

When John Linebaugh was in Missouri there was discussion about standing down an elephant with a frontal brain shot.

“I want to feel just as confident with a pistol as I do with my 470 double”

And he was talking about pointing his arm up to shoot the elephant……not level.

Danger close.

475 Maximum was the choice. Shooting it off the bench John said”stay awake”. Lol I did…….John let me test shoot all the guns before shipping……what a good friend. Lol

Otto is gone. The Maximum went to a friend of mine Tom Ordes. Who passed unexpectedly recently. Tom was a Big Bore Junkie. Had a 4 Bore double………miss him.

Otto was Tom’s Mentor. Hunted Alaska and Africa together. Tom helped me identify the picture with Otto’s big brown bear……and the gun.

Tom still owes me a beer……….

The load was with a cut down solid 475 solid. And it worked.

But I ramble…….

I didn’t know Tom personally but followed his big bore stuff on Facebook, he seemed like a real interesting guy! Was sorry to see when he passed

[45MAN]

WHEN SPEER DESIGNED THEIR TUNGSTEN CORE FMJ FN SOLID DANGEROUS GAME RIFLE BULLETS THEY USED A NASA PROGRAM THAT NASA USED ON THEIR ROCKETS TO STABILIZE THEIR FLIGHT/ELIMINATE YAWING (ROCKETS DO NOT SPIN LIKE RIFLE/PISTOL BULLETS). FROM TALKING TO THE SPEER GUYS AND WHAT I RECALL ABOUT VERAL SMITH's TEACHINGS IS THAT FN BULLETS TRACK STRAIGHTER THAN SPIRE POINT OR RN BULLETS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT YAW AFTER ENTERING AN ANIMAL. THE LFN BULLET HAS A SMALLER MEPLAT THAT A WFN BULLET AND SUPPOSEDLY PENETRATES DEEPER AND IS MORE ACCURATE AT LONGER DISTANCES, WHILE THE WFN HAS MORE "SMACK". THE BULLET I USED ON THE ELEPHANT WAS A WFN++, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS JUST TOO WIDE FOR BIG GAME, e.g. CAPE BUFFALO AND ELEPHANT.

ON THE SAME SAFARI WHERE I LOST THE ELEPHANT, USING THE SAME BULLET AND REVOLVER AS ON THE ELEPHANT, I SHOT THE SAME CAPE BUFFALO TWICE. FIRST TIME WAS A FRONTAL BODY SHOT AND WE NEVER FOUND HIM. THEN A FEW DAYS LATER WE SEE HIM AGAIN, BROADSIDE AND I PUT A PERFECT SHOULDER HIT ON HIM, THE POI WAS VISIBLE ON HIS HIDE, HE STAGGERED AND THE PH SAID IT WAS NOT NECESSARY TO SHOOT AGAIN. THE BULL WENT INTO SOME NEARBY BRUSH AND WE WALKED OVER TO GET MY TROPHY CAPE BUFFALO. A FEW HOURS LATER WE GAVE UP THE SEARCH. ANOTHER TROPHY FEE "down the drain".

ON A SAFARI IN MOZAMBIQUE, USING A 305gr FN FMJ CORBON PENETRATOR WITH A "NORMAL" SIZED MEPLAT I SHOT THRU THE SHOULDERS OF A CAPE BUFFALO, RECOVERING THE BULLET UNDER THE HIDE ON THE OFF SIDE. ALTHOUGH MOSTLY ASSUMPTION AND PRESUMPTION I "THINK" THE MEPLAT ON THE WFN++ PENETRATOR WAS JUST WAY TOO WIDE TO MAINTAIN BULLET INTEGRITY AND PENETRATE SUFFICIENTLY.

[bigbore5]

The best straight line penetration in a handgun seems to be the SSK truncated cone line. They proved themselves on game and continue to do so.

The same design in a heavy jacket with lead core should do about the same. Belt Mountain punch bullets proved that, but are unfortunately not available now.

Although of good design for the most part, the lesser mass of the solid copper bullets reduces penetration too significantly for the big two and possibly hippo.

[aciera]

Jan 24, 2024 20:11:38 GMT -5 weiler said:

Jan 24, 2024 17:07:19 GMT -5 aciera said:

I imagine that would be a strange feeling.

I can chime in a little.

Otto Candies was a hunter. Hunted elephant a lot.

When John Linebaugh was in Missouri there was discussion about standing down an elephant with a frontal brain shot.

“I want to feel just as confident with a pistol as I do with my 470 double”

And he was talking about pointing his arm up to shoot the elephant……not level.

Danger close.

475 Maximum was the choice. Shooting it off the bench John said”stay awake”. Lol I did…….John let me test shoot all the guns before shipping……what a good friend. Lol

Otto is gone. The Maximum went to a friend of mine Tom Ordes. Who passed unexpectedly recently. Tom was a Big Bore Junkie. Had a 4 Bore double………miss him.

Otto was Tom’s Mentor. Hunted Alaska and Africa together. Tom helped me identify the picture with Otto’s big brown bear……and the gun.

Tom still owes me a beer……….

The load was with a cut down solid 475 solid. And it worked.

But I ramble…….

I didn’t know Tom personally but followed his big bore stuff on Facebook, he seemed like a real interesting guy! Was sorry to see when he passed

He was a serious serious handgunner.

Quite a number of 50-110 revolvers.
He was a True Character……..as was Otto. Have an album filled with his …….guns and stuff