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Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 15, 2023 21:48:31 GMT -5
I wonder how close the 9x23 case is to a 9 Super, 223/5.56x45 case cut to 38S length. There were soooo many 38 Superesque cases in the late 90’s to early 2000’s it’s tough to keep up. 38TJ, 9SuperComp, 38SuperComp, 9x23, and a rimless 38Super that I can’t recall the correct name.
I’m aware of them because I used to buy bulk “38Super” brass for use in my Steel gun when I shot speed steel matches, 9x23 was the only one I couldn’t get to feed through my Dillon dies or my Kidd steel gun.
Trapr
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Post by cas on Dec 15, 2023 22:20:56 GMT -5
I wonder how close the 9x23 case is to a 9 Super, 223/5.56x45 case... I swore I recall reading that it was very close or the same. Of course that doesn't make it true. I know a guy who was still competing with his 9x21 Tanfo up until a couple years ago. I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with a name... isn't there another IPSC/USPSA birthed version? Not the .356TSW, not the Super Comp, but another one named after a shooter like the TJ is???
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Post by bigbrowndog on Dec 16, 2023 9:32:29 GMT -5
Would not surprise me, and I’d forgotten about the 356tsw. The Tangfo would be easy to run with 9x19 and make no alterations, finding 9x21 brass would be the sticky part.
Trapr
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 16, 2023 10:29:56 GMT -5
From what I have read, the 9x23 is just a lengthened and strengthened 9mm case...it does have a slight taper vs. the .38 Super which is straight walled. The case is a couple thousandths larger in the base than the Super which is why a 9x23 won't fully chamber in a Match chambered .38 Super barrel. The Colts of recent manufacture will not chamber 9x23 but all my BarSto barrels will as well as Nowlin, ROTO 4M and Fusion. Colts are so Match chambered that they won't even chamber a slightly bulged .38 Super case. Went to a Lee Undersize Sizing Die and cured all of that. Starline should have called their standard .38 Super brass .38 ACP... Bob ****** Bob.... intriguing stuff here. All these different 9mm’s revive the jumble of 9mm Luger manufacturing specs which preceded the wave of interest which accompanied U.S. adoption of the 9mm Luger as a service cartridge, in line with NATO. Of course, the jumble of manufacturing specs includes both cartridge and chamber specs. To hear you describe your tighter chambers in your Colt match barrels than Irv Stone’s BarSto barrel sounds opposite of the .45 ACP picture, with a more pinched chamber in the BarSto. David Bradshaw
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 16, 2023 13:21:23 GMT -5
Funny you should mention BarSto tight chambers. Over the years I've had two barrels a .357 sig for a Beretta 96 and a 1911 .38 super that needed to go back because they were short chambered.
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Post by revolvercranker on Dec 16, 2023 13:57:47 GMT -5
Funny you should mention BarSto tight chambers. Over the years I've had two barrels a .357 sig for a Beretta 96 and a 1911 .38 super that needed to go back because they were short chambered. gnappi I'm trying to understand something here about the BarSto barrels. On their website they list them basically in two categories. One is Semi Fit and the other is Gunsmith Fit. That's a broad statement I know. How much short chambering are you speaking of in thousandths of inches? Doesn't have to be exact, just a close estimate.
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 16, 2023 15:44:14 GMT -5
AFAIK gunsmith fit should not require chamber reaming.
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Post by revolvercranker on Dec 16, 2023 16:07:45 GMT -5
AFAIK gunsmith fit should not require chamber reaming. Reaming as in diamter of the chamber and shape, no. Length maybe. I'm going to mention just a couple areas of the barrel that need attention to fitting. Will just be speaking about the barrel hood. It's width and length. Adjusting the width of the hood will have nothing to do with chamber length, but length of the hood may impact it.
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 16, 2023 17:00:19 GMT -5
AFAIK gunsmith fit should not require chamber reaming. Reaming as in diamter of the chamber and shape, no. Length maybe. I'm going to mention just a couple areas of the barrel that need attention to fitting. Will just be speaking about the barrel hood. It's width and length. Adjusting the width of the hood will have nothing to do with chamber length, but length of the hood may impact it. Those I fit myself. I don't know one smith that carries ALL possible comm on chamber reamers. Hell I know more than a few "gunsmiths" that work only polymer and don't have a drillpress. :-)
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Post by revolvercranker on Dec 16, 2023 18:13:02 GMT -5
Reaming as in diamter of the chamber and shape, no. Length maybe. I'm going to mention just a couple areas of the barrel that need attention to fitting. Will just be speaking about the barrel hood. It's width and length. Adjusting the width of the hood will have nothing to do with chamber length, but length of the hood may impact it. Those I fit myself. I don't know one smith that carries ALL possible comm on chamber reamers. Hell I know more than a few "gunsmiths" that work only polymer and don't have a drillpress. :-) Did you speak to BarSto about them?
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,394
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Post by gnappi on Dec 16, 2023 18:29:20 GMT -5
Yeah, they took them back and fixed them without problem
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Post by revolvercranker on Dec 16, 2023 18:39:17 GMT -5
Yeah, they took them back and fixed them without problem Good ending then. Once I fitted a Jimmy Clark match 1911 barrel to my 70 Series Gold Cup. It was the tightest 45acp chamber I had seen up to that time of all the 45acp barrels and firearms I have had over the times, EXCEPT until I got a 45acp cylinder for my Ruger Blackhawk Old Model 45 Colt. Ruger chambered those extremely tight.
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Post by bcelliott on Dec 16, 2023 23:32:09 GMT -5
I shoot a lot of 9x23 Win in 1911s and a Tanfoglio Witness Match (reamed 9mm barrel using 38 Super magazines). Winchester brass will handle 55k psi easily, but it is hard to find. If you want to get brass but can't find it, you can use Starline 9x23 Comp, which has the correct outside taper and rim size but thinner case walls. On the plus side, the Starline case holds more powder but runs at a lower pressure.
However, your other option is to use cut down 350 Legend brass. Winchester just dusted off the 9x23 brass design, lengthened it, and turned down the rim to 223 size to create the 350 Legend. (The 9x23 is larger than 223 in the case head.) This 350 Legend brass has the same web thickness and will handle the same 55k psi as the 9x23 brass. You just have to adjust your extractor to grab the slightly smaller rim.
9x23 Win can send light bullets at crazy fast velocities but recoils much less than 10mm. With judicious loading, you can easily get a 147 grain going around 1450 fps as well.
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