veeman
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 53
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Post by veeman on Dec 3, 2023 9:37:18 GMT -5
Depending on your bore size, .451 cylinder throat is too small, squeezing the bullet to undersize. Throats should be .4525 for modern bores. But, if it's working for you..
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Post by bigmuddy on Dec 3, 2023 10:29:08 GMT -5
Congratulations Bob on a nice score. As mentioned Colt SAA’s under 2k are a rare find these days. Anxious to see the pics and a range report. There’s just something about a Colt……
Dan
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kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
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Post by kooz on Dec 3, 2023 11:18:42 GMT -5
Not too many years ago I wanted a Colt SA in 45 Colt, BAD. I bought a 3rd Generation and being a cast bullet shooter, upon receiving the revolver I measured the cylinder throats. They were all over the place with the largest being .456". I turned around and sold it and bought a different example. Got it in, same thing. Cylinder throats of this size take some special type cast bullets in order to have any hope of accuracy. Ultimately I bought a 4 3/4" Uberti Frisco in 45 Colt that turned out to be a dream gun and built as the Colt should've been built. Its cylinder throats were perfect all measuring .451" and it is one of the most accurate revolvers I've ever owned. Just a little food for thought. +1 . I hate that as Americans we have to buy Italian to get a properly built "Colt SAA". It is what it is and at least they are inexpensive and available . I have a Uberti I picked up used at a gunshop several years ago for $300, it was in the box and like new , but front sight was canted to one side . I had a local smith shave the sight off even with the barrel and then install a drift adjustable FA front sight . Has been a great gun, very accurate . I have carried and shot the crap out of that gun over the years, and have only had to replace one bolt spring .
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Post by Cholla on Dec 3, 2023 11:59:28 GMT -5
Depending on your bore size, .451 cylinder throat is too small, squeezing the bullet to undersize. Throats should be .4525 for modern bores. But, if it's working for you.. You had me questioning myself, so I checked again. The cylinder throat diameters are exactly .451" while the groove diameter of the barrel is .4495". A near perfect match in my opinion. Cimarron actually makes available the specifications of their Uberti-produced barrel dimensions- www.cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist and they show their .45 caliber revolver barrels to have a .450" groove diameter, so mine's pretty close.
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Post by Cholla on Dec 3, 2023 12:03:32 GMT -5
+1 . I hate that as Americans we have to buy Italian to get a properly built "Colt SAA". It is what it is and at least they are inexpensive and available . I have a Uberti I picked up used at a gunshop several years ago for $300, it was in the box and like new , but front sight was canted to one side . I had a local smith shave the sight off even with the barrel and then install a drift adjustable FA front sight . Has been a great gun, very accurate . I have carried and shot the crap out of that gun over the years, and have only had to replace one bolt spring . It is frustrating, but I think it really can be summed up that Colt building their later revolvers more for collectors while Uberti has been building theirs for those of us who shoot. When I really got into shooting these revolvers past just a few yards, I mean out to 75 yds., I just couldn't believe how accurate they were. I have a pair of consecutively numbered Uberti ugly-as-a-mud-fence Hombre's in .357 that I bought in 2012 for $265 each. I tidied up the forcing cones and they easily shoot fist-size groups at 75 yds. from a seated back-rested position.
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veeman
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 53
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Post by veeman on Dec 4, 2023 9:12:38 GMT -5
Depending on your bore size, .451 cylinder throat is too small, squeezing the bullet to undersize. Throats should be .4525 for modern bores. But, if it's working for you.. You had me questioning myself, so I checked again. The cylinder throat diameters are exactly .451" while the groove diameter of the barrel is .4495". A near perfect match in my opinion. Cimarron actually makes available the specifications of their Uberti-produced barrel dimensions- www.cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist and they show their .45 caliber revolver barrels to have a .450" groove diameter, so mine's pretty close. That is small for a 45 Colt, but hey, don't fix what ain't broke! Happy Shooting!
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 4, 2023 9:39:53 GMT -5
I've learned a lot after joining this forum. Two of the most important things are listen to Cholla and listen to Paul105. There are others of course, but these two quietly stand out.
Not brash and don't post in quantity. But, each always post QUALITY...
This is no exception. Cholla is correct about Uberti. While the Colt Zealots tried their best to discredit Uberti with misinformation, Uberti has prospered while Colt failed. While I like and appreciate both company's products, I didn't care for Colt's Anti-American Stand. Thankfully for us, CZ seems to be getting the brand back on track.
While throat size matters, it's more the throat size to barrel size ratio that's really important.
Uberti has this right. A .452" cast bullet sized down to .451" in the chamber throats creates a perfect gas seal and sizes the bullet .001" over groove diameter. Then the bullet also has a good fit and gas seal as it is pushed down the bore.
Clearly, there's different ideas and theories on this. Most of them work. Just goes to show there are various "right" ways to do things...
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Post by Cholla on Dec 4, 2023 11:22:16 GMT -5
I've learned a lot after joining this forum. Two of the most important things are listen to Cholla and listen to Paul105. There are others of course, but these two quietly stand out. Not brash and don't post in quantity. But, each always post QUALITY... This is no exception. Cholla is correct about Uberti. While the Colt Zealots tried their best to discredit Uberti with misinformation, Uberti has prospered while Colt failed. While I like and appreciate both company's products, I didn't care for Colt's Anti-American Stand. Thankfully for us, CZ seems to be getting the brand back on track. While throat size matters, it's more the throat size to barrel size ratio that's really important. Uberti has this right. A .452" cast bullet sized down to .451" in the chamber throats creates a perfect gas seal and sizes the bullet .001" over groove diameter. Then the bullet also has a good fit and gas seal as it is pushed down the bore. Clearly, there's different ideas and theories on this. Most of them work. Just goes to show there are various "right" ways to do things... Thanks for the kind words. I enjoy your posts very much.
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Post by Cholla on Dec 4, 2023 11:23:56 GMT -5
You had me questioning myself, so I checked again. The cylinder throat diameters are exactly .451" while the groove diameter of the barrel is .4495". A near perfect match in my opinion. Cimarron actually makes available the specifications of their Uberti-produced barrel dimensions- www.cimarron-firearms.com/bore-groove-twist and they show their .45 caliber revolver barrels to have a .450" groove diameter, so mine's pretty close. That is small for a 45 Colt, but hey, don't fix what ain't broke! Happy Shooting! Actually, according to SAAMI standards the cylinder throat size (.452" +.075), is a tad small, but the barrel groove diameter is nearly perfect as SAAMI specifies .450" for the 45 Colt. Heck, my micrometer may have been off that much. At any rate, the marriage of .451" cylinder throats to a .450" groove diameter works quite well in my experience.
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sdh212
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 14
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Post by sdh212 on Dec 6, 2023 1:11:46 GMT -5
Ain't nothing like a real Colt, no substitutes will do!! 2cd .44 Special, custom grips. 1st .44 special conversion. 1st .44 Special conversion, custom grips, restored.
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Post by bigmuddy on Dec 6, 2023 10:33:09 GMT -5
^^^^^AWESOME!^^^^^
Hard to beat a 44 Special Colt SAA
Dan
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Post by tentcamper on Dec 6, 2023 11:47:01 GMT -5
While a Colt or two would be a great addition to my collection my vote would also be for the EMF GW II currently. A very well made Italian gun that does everything the Colt does (accept appreciate in value over the next 50 years) for 1/3 or more of the price.
I recently saw a 45 Colt and a .357 GW II come through a LGS. The 45 sold in no time, I believe the .357 is still there. Both new and priced mid 400s. Beat that.
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Post by rjm52 on Dec 11, 2023 20:03:51 GMT -5
The gun arrived today...100% unfired and not hardly a turn line...paperwork was missing but was not pictured...$1800 was a bargain...his BS shipping fees were something else.
Before I bid I sent a message asking his shipping price to NH... USPS Priority $70.00 with $2k worth of insurance...which to me was excessive as I've sold tons of guns and do the internet sales for a local shop and $50-55 is all it would be.
So I bid $1850 and no one else bid and win the auction...get the Invoice and there is $79 shipping and a hidden under his Terms an extra $30 "HANDLING FEE"... I know better than to argue at this point or he'll cancel the deal which is way to good even with the $50+ in excessive shipping "fees"... Gun came in and it cost him $49.00 to ship it even though he said "Buyer Pays Actual shipping".
I'll be sending him a note asking about this just to see what he says... I'm not going to even ask for any money back as it is money well spent to learn the depth of man's character and his ethics...
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 11, 2023 20:11:47 GMT -5
While annoying, seems like you got a good deal in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by rjm52 on Dec 11, 2023 22:21:10 GMT -5
...well I spoke a little too soon... After taking a closer look the gun, while in real nice shape, has been fired. There was no end on of the cylinder in his online pics and it was obvious that it had lead smudges. Pulled the cylinder and there was brass marks on the recoil shield...
Waiting a response from the Seller.
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