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Post by CraigC on Jul 24, 2022 10:26:33 GMT -5
I would be highly suspect of anyone claiming to have shot an SRH loose. Even the .454/.480 versions, let alone the .44 or lesser models. I routinely shoot 50,000psi loads out of mine and it gobbles them up. 355's at 1350fps out of the .44. Max (Whitworth) posted about the bisley SBHs awhile back. He did some of the testing of the 480 and 454 bisley. He says he shot them loose but it took more to do it than any normal shooter ever could with standard loads. I still have not heard of anyone doing it to a SRH. Correct, that was the Super Blackhawk, not the SRH. The .454 shot loose in a few thousand rounds. I forget where the major wear point was but assume it was the bolt and its corresponding slot in the frame. Jack knows, he worked on it. The big DA's are just stronger guns.
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 24, 2022 10:54:17 GMT -5
rug480.... missing from the conversation, metals & heat treatment. Ruger frames test harder than S&W, and Colt below that. The Colt single action frame possesses none of the interior hardness with strength of a Ruger. I am not qualified to discuss metallurgy and HEAT TREATMENT. Suffice too say, Bill Ruger, and Bill, Jr., mentioned a couple of changes, which to this shooter suggest the later Blackhawk/SBK may be a better candidate for building a big blaster than earliest examples. This much is so well proven as to be beyond dispute: High pressure rounds dealing in big bullets want TIGHT FITUP to avoid the slide-hammer effect slack creates. Thus, when chambered for the likes of the .454 Casual and larger bores, even a Ruger that is loosely fitted must loosen further in time. Rocks & Dynamite do not tolerate endshake. A Ruger built tight to begin with start stays tight.
To achieve its vaunted ballistics, the .454 Casull demands HIGH PRESSURE. A Ruger properly made is fine with this; the S&W is not, less so a Colt.
Perhaps of interest to small bore builders, Ruger for years gave the Single-Six the same heat treatment as used on Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk. At some point, heat treatment for the Single-Six changed. It is my impression this happened some time considerably after Ruger moved single action production from Southport, Connecticut to Newport, New Hampshire (1992). Don’t know how this might affect chambering of a hot centerfire in the Single-Six. Bill Ruger, Jr., had no qualms about affected strength.
Without altering heat treatment, Ruger made a change in frame manufacture. Prior to the change, machining & drilling of the frame casting preceded heat treatment. This could result in some dimensional warpage after heat treatment. Ruger experimented with milling of the heat treated part and found, while eliminating warpage, little loss of tool life. An additional benefit came in stock removal----little chips instead of coiled cuttings.
In visiting Ronnie Wells and handling a spectrum of his customs, Ronnie describes Bill Ruger’s single action as “The MR. POTATO HEAD of revolvers!” Ronnie ain't wrong. David Bradshaw
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Post by CraigC on Jul 24, 2022 11:14:14 GMT -5
rug480.... missing from the conversation, meals & heat treatment. Ruger frames test harder than S&W, and Colt below that. The Colt single action frame possesses none of the interior hardness with strength of a Ruger. I am not qualified to discuss metallurgy AND HEAT TREATMENT. Suffice too say, Bill Ruger, and Bill, Jr., mentioned a couple of changes, which to this shooter suggest the later Blackhawk/SBK may be a better candidate for building a big blaster than earliest examples. This much is so well proven as to be beyond dispute: High pressure rounds dealing in big bullets want TIGHT FITUP to avoid the slide-hammer effect slack creates. Thus, when chambered for the likes of the .454 Casual and larger bores, even a Ruger that is loosely fitted must loosen further in time. Rocks & Dynamite do not tolerate endshake. Ruger built tight to begin with start stays tight. I'd wager that if you took a factory .454/.480 and fortified it like the custom five-shots with a fitted bolt/bearing block, it would probably last as long as the shooter. Might have to also fit it with a cylinder bushing to eliminate any endshake.
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Post by lar4570 on Jul 26, 2022 7:41:52 GMT -5
Back in the 90s, I had a SRH 44 Mag. We found some 330gn cast bullets at the Pullyallup gun show and proceeded to load them with as much 296 as I could compress under it. We got to 1550fps. I never should have gone there, but the gun seemed to handle it fine.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jul 26, 2022 9:02:44 GMT -5
David and Craig are spot on. Properly heated treated alloys with enough girth to house big pressure are the starting point. Fit is equally important. As David described, the 'slide hammer' effect is what shoots guns loose. Whether that be end shake or side play. No doubt, the .454 Blackhawk can take the pressure. But for how long? I've always said the .454 Super isn't up to thousands of rounds of top end Casull. The cylinders just aren't fit tight enough. They'll hold, but they'll get loose. Like many custom builders, we go to great lengths to ensure our cylinders have no play. Our gas rings are precision ground in ten-thousandth increments on a surface grinder to precisely fit the frame window. Bolt bearing blocks are one way to circumvent side-play. However, I prefer to buy oversized bolts and surface grind those to exactly fit the frame's bolt slot. From there, we grind a Woodruff key cutter so the cylinder stops match the bolt width. All of this is detailed in pages 5 & 6 of my .500 Linebaugh build for those that are interested: singleactions.proboards.com/thread/18991/5-shot-build-documented?page=5No need to stop at dimensions when talking about revolver strength. "Fit" should be part of the discussion too. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by CraigC on Jul 26, 2022 11:49:11 GMT -5
Back in the 90s, I had a SRH 44 Mag. We found some 330gn cast bullets at the Pullyallup gun show and proceeded to load them with as much 296 as I could compress under it. We got to 1550fps. I never should have gone there, but the gun seemed to handle it fine. You can't get enough 296 in the case to hurt the .44 SRH but you were probably well in excess of 50,000psi. Its one of few guns that will withstand the abuse. I stopped at 330's at 1450fps and 355's at 1350fps, with 100% density and no compression. IMHO, they are stronger than the Dan Wessons, even though the Dans are heavier. Brian Pearce's 50,000psi +P data gets a 320gr to nearly 1500fps.
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 27, 2022 10:22:57 GMT -5
I picked up a SRH a while back in a package deal. Haven't messed with it.
After reading this I'm thinking about sending it out for an action and accuracy job. Also I think I will have everything tightened up. Bush cylinder pin. Oversized bolt stop. Those kinds of things. It is a little loose despite it appearing to have not been shot very much.
I just never liked the long frame since I don't scope revolvers yet.
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Post by CraigC on Jul 27, 2022 10:40:17 GMT -5
After shooting and hunting with them a bit, I got over that part about being ugly.
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Post by Encore64 on Jul 27, 2022 10:46:43 GMT -5
I've got SRHs in 480 Ruger, 454 Casull and 10mm Magnum. They aren't for sale either..
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Post by CraigC on Jul 27, 2022 10:51:12 GMT -5
I don't quite have the full set.
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 27, 2022 11:55:22 GMT -5
I picked up a SRH a while back in a package deal. Haven't messed with it. After reading this I'm thinking about sending it out for an action and accuracy job. Also I think I will have everything tightened up. Bush cylinder pin. Oversized bolt stop. Those kinds of things. It is a little loose despite it appearing to have not been shot very much. I just never liked the long frame since I don't scope revolvers yet. ***** Trigger work may be in order. As for accuracy, It’s my practice to bench a revolver, preferably to 100 yards when closer pans out. By doing so, one begins to discern which dimensions and which dimensional combinations make a revolver tick. Always good to slug the bore. “Bush the cylinder pin” ---- What is that about? Do you intend to bore the axle hole? As for cylinder latch (aka stop or bolt), minor play doesn’t affect accuracy. Excessive play self-aggravates. A lousy forcing cone warrants pulling the barrel for a re-cut----preferably on a lathe----and to set the barrel back. David Bradshaw
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Post by bigbore5 on Jul 27, 2022 12:12:37 GMT -5
I picked up a SRH a while back in a package deal. Haven't messed with it. After reading this I'm thinking about sending it out for an action and accuracy job. Also I think I will have everything tightened up. Bush cylinder pin. Oversized bolt stop. Those kinds of things. It is a little loose despite it appearing to have not been shot very much. I just never liked the long frame since I don't scope revolvers yet. ***** Trigger work may be in order. As for accuracy, It’s my practice to bench a revolver, preferably to 100 yards when closer pans out. By doing so, one begins to discern which dimensions and which dimensional combinations make a revolver tick. Always good to slug the bore. “Bush the cylinder pin” ---- What is that about? Do you intend to bore the axle hole? As for cylinder latch (aka stop or bolt), minor play doesn’t affect accuracy. Excessive play self-aggravates. A lousy forcing cone warrants pulling the barrel for a re-cut----preferably on a lathe----and to set the barrel back. David Bradshaw The gun is very loose. There's a good bit of end shake. There's forcing cone erosion. The crown is rough. It just needs help. The previous owner shot a good bit of lil' gun and who knows what else through it. As I said I only took it as part of a trade and then only figured about $300 on it's value. Figured one day it'll end up at Bowen to become a really big sp101. But a full on custom job on it is a while away. Got others taking the budget for a few years. However a nice rebuild is possible.
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 27, 2022 12:38:11 GMT -5
"The gun is very loose. There's a good bit of end shake. There's forcing cone erosion. The crown is rough. It just needs help.
The previous owner shot a good bit of lil' gun and who knows what else through it. As I said I only took it as part of a trade and then only figured about $300 on it's value. Figured one day it'll end up at Bowen to become a really big sp101. But a full on custom job on it is a while away. Got others taking the budget for a few years. However a nice rebuild is possible.” ----Wayne
*****
Wayne.... O.K. Sounds like time for a pit stop. David Bradshaw
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