rug480
.30 Stingray
Posts: 139
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Post by rug480 on Jun 26, 2019 13:07:17 GMT -5
This one is more for a fun discussion,
I don't shoot enough but I read a lot, enough from forums and literature to learn that full tilt 320gr 44 will work a Smith 29 loose before a Redhawk even pays attention. Max & David's Ruger Digest explained how a 454 Alaskan ate 300 proof loads without issue.
I've been dabbling with Smith's lately, an old 29-3 with a good bit of endshake, and a 7.5PC 500 (brand new) with .009-.010 b/c gap and .005 endshake.. sent back to Smith on the 13th but looks like I won't see it again until August.. Oy vey
I swear sometimes I feel like I'm only a hop away from getting a 480 bisley again and calling it a day.
So, has anyone here actually shot a Redhawk/SRH loose? I'm talking Redhawk/SRH or the SBH/Bisleys in 44/45 (or even custom conversions but I figure guys don't continually feed their $3000+ customs a full throttle diet). I know a case stuffed with Titegroup will wreck any wheelgun, but I have yet to come across a discussion where someone had a wear issue with their Rugers. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough but I never see it come up..
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jun 26, 2019 13:41:04 GMT -5
It’s not exactly what you’re asking but, Lee’s article on the 500Max is a pretty good example of stoutness. He fed his maximum a steady diet of full throttle loads and it’s still tight and accurate. I don’t recall his numbers but they are listed.
Trapr
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Post by buttebob on Jun 26, 2019 13:58:23 GMT -5
About 40 years ago at a gun shop where I worked, a guy came in from the range and stated: "My gun o-deed". It was a Ruger SBH and half the cylinder and the top strap were missing. We told him 'no' we couldn't fix it. He returned to the range and continued to fire his gun 2 rounds at a time rotating the cylinder by hand.
It must have been a pretty stout reload.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Jun 27, 2019 3:27:51 GMT -5
To the best of my knowledge Ruger makes the only 6 shot 454 there is.
They shoot the same loads as all the other 5 shot 454s.
Must be sumpin to it.
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Post by 45MAN on Jun 27, 2019 7:15:12 GMT -5
YEARS AGO I WAS LOADING SOME MODERATE "STANDARD" TYPE LOADS FOR THE 45 COLT, USING A DILLON SQUARE DEAL B AND UNIVERSAL CLAYS. DO NOT KNOW WHY BUT I HAD 2 ROUNDS "DETONATE", 1 BLEW THE TOP STRAP OF A 3rd GEN COLT SAA OFF AND BLEW UP THE CYLINDER, THE OTHER ONE MADE A SMALL CRACK IN A RUGER BISLY CYLINDER ALONG THE CHAMBER WHERE THE ROUND WAS FIRED. I SENT THE GUN TO RUGER, THEY CHECKED IT OUT AND JUST REPLACED THE CYLINDER.
HAVE NOT USED UNIVERSAL CLAYS SINCE THEN, NOR THE SQUARE DEAL B FOR 45 COLT.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jun 27, 2019 7:28:03 GMT -5
Yes I learned my lesson... I was shooting up some of FIL's old hand loads ( he was known for loading hot ) & after some digging I found out these particular 44 Special loads were loaded by one of the old neighbors, & I think FIL was shooting them up in his Dan Wesson 44 Magnum, which was shot loose when we inherited it...
I loaded up a cylinder full of cast 44 Special handloads in my brand new Lipsy Flat Top Bisley, & on the 2nd shot, it locked up, & there was a small crack in the cylinder stop notch I was heart broken... 2 shots in a brand new gun, & it was wrecked... well I ended up getting a new take off cylinder from 2 Dogs that he happened to have, & the gun is fine now...
I pulled down the rest of that ammo, & my best guess of the power... they were double charged 44 mag loads in special cases... hot enough to crack the cylinder, but the frame was still perfect...
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 27, 2019 8:01:11 GMT -5
The issue of revolver strength has two major components, YIELD and DURABILITY. The two are often confused, and it is easy to see why. The .44 Remington Magnum is a great example cartridge on which to base a look. The Smith & Wesson Model 29 and Ruger Super Blackhawk provide the best and most widely distributed vehicles for a comparison. Metallugy differs somewhat, with major hardware excellent in both. Cylinder material and heat treatment cannot alone be the basis for a yield comparison. Stop notches centered over the chamber are the primary fracture point in failure of a chamber to contain pressure. As a fact of mechanism design, STOP NOTCHES on the S&W cylinder are farther rearward than on the Ruger, giving the Smith an advantage. Most of us will never see a difference, as you’ve got to go way overboard to reach it.
Once a cylinder lets go, it bends or breaks the topstrap, ruining the frame. The stronger Ruger frame may be seen to let go sooner than the Smith, simply because the Ruger cylinder ruptured first. Offset stop notches contribute greatly to a cylinder’s ability to remain intact under excess pressure. To offset notches in hope of preventing disaster may compromise function of lockwork. A great “strength” of the Smith & Wesson design is its phenominal reliability when properly handled. This is best achieved by cruising under----not into nor above----the Rocks & Dynamite cloud.
No proving ground has surpassed the positive and negative records of revolvers campaigned in handgun silhouette, the most widely-witnessed arena in big bore handgunning. Thank the targets, steel cutouts of animals, which have to be knocked down with one shot. A power requirement free of abstraction. The Super Blackhawk proved the endurance champion. Other revolvers came along, notably the Dan Wesson Model 44 and stretch frame M-40, and the Freedom Arms Casull Model 83. Sig Himmelmann’s El Dorado and Seville are strong revolvers, yet apt to come up short against Ruger on durability. Were handgun silhouette to start today, I have no doubt the Magnum Research BFR would muscle its way to the podium.
Yield strength does not provide a revolver tenure on the firing line. Tenure requires toughness, the stamina to stay in the game, stay tight through mountains of shooting.
If we eliminate stop notches from the side of a cylinder, we still must consider wall thickness between chambers. Most revolvers enjoy a degree of mass between chamber and the hole for the crane, or centerpin, or bushing. This center hole has limited room for enlargement without compromising the chamber wall.
My experience with high explosives gives me great reluctance to generalize in strength, to make it a psi debate. There are qualities of pressure. If you want to fracture steel, use high velocity (VOD----Velocity of Detonation). If you want to fracture rock, use lower velocity. Too much velocity vaporizes rock, blowing rock to dust in a concentrated area----without fracturing the large mass. The longer DWELL TIME of lower velocity HEAVES rock, grinding rock over a greater area. As an analogy, a fast pistol powder may spike to dangerous pressure without imparting velocity to a heavy bullet. A slow powder overcomes projectile inertia without spiking, and by the time the bullet reaches the muzzle it’s traveling much faster----safely.
David Bradshaw
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jgt
.327 Meteor
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Posts: 782
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Post by jgt on Jun 27, 2019 8:32:48 GMT -5
Well, a 29-3 was built by lear-seigler in the 80's while cheapening the manufacturing and milking the name and reputation of Smith & Wesson. The 29-5 had upgrades. These were not silly-wet guns and were designed in a different time when more people were responsible reloaders. After "Dirty Harry" all the "couch ninjas" had to have one. Since it was "the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow your head clean off", they had to hot load it of course. This is America, you are free to do as you like. Follow a fad or not.
Ruger guns were built very tough, not always well, or with precision but a lot of gun for the money.
Custom revolvers were usually built for people who wanted to eliminate two things. Number one was a gun that would not group well with good ammunition. And number two for those who used good ammunition. Whether factory or hand loaded. By eliminating the faulty gun or ammunition from the equation, if the shooter got a poor group he knew it was his shooting and not his equipment. A precision built machine can take a lot more of a load and not break down than a poorly built machine. That said, there are still those who could tear up an anvil.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Jun 27, 2019 18:30:53 GMT -5
Its almost funny how thin the cylinder walls are on the SRH480 Ruger. And yet the pressures are still quite high. Tho the 454 runs at higher pressures. The 480 is still quite high. Nice thing about a fat bullet. It doesn't have to run too hot to be effective.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jun 27, 2019 20:22:28 GMT -5
It’s not exactly what you’re asking but, Lee’s article on the 500Max is a pretty good example of stoutness. He fed his maximum a steady diet of full throttle loads and it’s still tight and accurate. I don’t recall his numbers but they are listed. Trapr Still ticking after 4,200 rounds of full-house 525 and 585 grain cast...  -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 22, 2022 12:20:18 GMT -5
Still ticking after 4,200 rounds of full-house 525 and 585 grain cast... ----Lee Martin ***** A picture of Rocks & Dynamite. David Bradshaw |
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Post by bushog on Jul 22, 2022 12:54:14 GMT -5
Wasn’t there a thread recently about Redhawk barrels coming off?
That qualifies as loose, no?
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sj6g
.30 Stingray
Posts: 114
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Post by sj6g on Jul 22, 2022 18:37:08 GMT -5
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Post by Encore64 on Jul 22, 2022 19:54:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure how anyone could answer the question about strength. Too many variables in builds to determine that with any accuracy.
I do believe that fitting tolerances has everything to do with longevity.
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 22, 2022 19:57:08 GMT -5
YEARS AGO I WAS LOADING SOME MODERATE "STANDARD" TYPE LOADS FOR THE 45 COLT, USING A DILLON SQUARE DEAL B AND UNIVERSAL CLAYS. DO NOT KNOW WHY BUT I HAD 2 ROUNDS "DETONATE", 1 BLEW THE TOP STRAP OF A 3rd GEN COLT SAA OFF AND BLEW UP THE CYLINDER, THE OTHER ONE MADE A SMALL CRACK IN A RUGER BISLY CYLINDER ALONG THE CHAMBER WHERE THE ROUND WAS FIRED. I SENT THE GUN TO RUGER, THEY CHECKED IT OUT AND JUST REPLACED THE CYLINDER. HAVE NOT USED UNIVERSAL CLAYS SINCE THEN, NOR THE SQUARE DEAL B FOR 45 COLT. What became of the Colt SAA? |
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