Yellowstone bears

[GSSP]

Wife and I are headed to Yellowstone and areas around the park 1st week of July.  I've read up on the park regs and preferences.  Their preference is only carry and use EPA bear spray as the 2nd line of defense.  The 1st line being knowledge and distance from the bears.  My question is about a 3rd line of defense in case it really hits the preverbal fan.  The NP allows concealed/open carry depending on what state (ID/WY/MT) you happen to be in at the moment and they are all fine with open/ concealed carry.  I read where the NP, signed into law by Obama, allows firearms because local residents need to travel into and through the NP.  It wasn't put into law to allow us to carry in the NP even though it happens daily, i'm sure.  With that said....

3rd line of defense would be a handgun and only when defense #1 and #2 have have failed and bear is either about to eat one of us or has taken that first bite.  

1. My daily carry Ed Brown 1911 with 230 LBT cast in 45 acp running 900 - 950 fps; 8+1.

2. My sometimes carry CZ 75b with Buffalo Bore 9mm +P 147 gr Hard Cast running 1100 fps; 18+1.

3. Ruger SS NMBH, 4-5/8" 44 Spl with 255 WFN LBT running 1055 fps; 6 shots

4. Ruger SS NMBH, 4-5/8" 480 Ruger with 390 LFN LBT running in the 900 fps range; 5 shots.

Experiences, options, knowledge?

Thank you,

Alan

PS....For the record, I pray fervently, I won't ever have to pull my sidearm in defense.  I also realize i'll likely be arrested by NP police if I do.

[Stump Buster]

Whichever one you think you can shoot most intuitively and accurately one handed under extreme pressure.

Have a great trip and hope you don't need to clean your handguns or your britches during your travels through the park.

[squawberryman]

[lws]

Wife and I were at Yellowstone in 2015. Had a great time. Saw a couple of Bears and a heck of a lot of stupid people. Wildlife are just that WILD. It ain't a TV show. Did I carry? Hell Yes. But no one knew that. Lots of Bison, Antelope, Deer & Elk.

[halfmoon]

GSSP

In think Stump Buster is on the right track here.

I only have a theoretical perspective to offer but it looks like caliber correlates less than you'd think. You might want to check out this thread here:

singleactions.proboards.com/thread/22349/bear-defense-handgun-fascinating-read

This PDF download also makes interesting reading:

www.researchgate.net/profile/Tom_Smith21/publication/261982557_Efficacy_of_Firearms_for_Bear_Deterrence_in_Alaska/links/54ac24460cf21c4771398c38/Efficacy-of-Firearms-for-Bear-Deterrence-in-Alaska.pdf?origin=publication_detail

I would probably look for bullets with high penetration since a frontal or head shot at a bear is a bunch of muscle and bone to deal with.

All that said, hopefully someone with more practical knowledge can weigh in.

[GSSP]

Halfmoon,

Ha! I know Tom Smith. He was working on his PhD when I was an undergrad. He now lives about 1 mile from me. Interesting read. Indirectly, he was responsible for introducing me to my first wife.

[bigbrowndog]

Carry concealed, and your Ed Brown should be fine, although I’d prefer a FMJ bullet to cast.

Same with your CZ,...your not trying to generate shock and expansion you’re trying to penetrate and sever CNS functions. If I were out on public wilderness areas, a single action would be my preference, but for a public park. Concealed, 45 or 10mm with deep penetrating bullets, would be comforting and unknown by all the “citizens”

Trapr

[coldtriggerfinger]

Which ever one of those you are most comfortable carrying concealed.
Not being a 1911 fan myself but if you can easily and instincly operate it . Then your good . same with your CZ.
I pack a G20SF most of the time loaded with Buffalo Bore 220 gr TC cast boolits. That ammo chronograph 1200 fps from the oem length LW barrel.
If I was back in dense brown bear country. I would mostly pack my SRH480 Ruger.
Where I live now, I'm more likely to have to deal with a 200 lb problem black bear as I am a 700 + lb grizzly.

[GSSP]

I've carried the Ed Brown 1911 everyday for 10 years and shoot it the most; extremely comfortable with it! Buffalo Bore ammo makes a line of ammo called the Outdoorsman. In 45 acp it's a +p loading of a 255 gr hard cast flat nose running 960 fps from a 5" 1911. Phil Shoemaker, the famous Alaskan bear guide was guiding a fishing client and his wife just two years ago and had a run in with a brownie. Phil was packing his S&W 3953 9mm, full of the 147 gr hard cast flat nose Outdoorsman ammo. Good read

www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/8/10/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

[cmillard]

I will be going to Glacier National Park soon and will be carrying my .460 Rowland as seen in profile pic. I will be doing a lot of hiking. When I was in Yellowstone last, I just carried my g19, and didn’t hike. When I camped last year in Jackson, Wyoming I kept my Ruger bisley .45 colt with 360 WFN cast on me at all times and had numerous moose close to use and had a grizzly cross in front of us while driving through Teton National Park and Jenny lake.

[bula]

As much as I love "bear threads" already given advice and opinions pretty well cover it. So will go elsewhere.. LOl. So, figure them 4 Alaskan gals with a proven track record on bears, might be outta school for the summer and could be hired ? While we love the wild,.  bears add to our wilderness, other critters are often truly a bigger threat. Like moose, or in Yellowstone, buffalo. True, attacks by these mostly due to camera toting tourists crowding the beasties. Guess even elk now want there 5 minutes of fame too. Something I'd not known until last night was that roughly 5 people are killed by wild hogs/pigs per year. Of course,dodging vehicles driven by people playing with gadgets likely the worst by far. Spent a few days in the early '80's at the park. Yes we saw all of the usual critters and we saw a young paddle bull moose chase a father and young son back to their car and kick in the whole drivers side with just 4 kicks.  stay safe.

[bula]

Another thought, with us as the apex predator, wonder what crime is like in the major parks ? Guess they may not like to advertise this issue much. Do recall a series of books on crimes at parks but memory not coming up with authors name, sorry. Stay safe.

[halfmoon]

Jun 15, 2018 8:52:12 GMT -5 bula said:

So, figure them 4 Alaskan gals with a proven track record on bears, might be outta school for the summer and could be hired ?

They could call it The Babysitters Club! :-)

[lws]

Just use more common sense than most people that go to Yellowstone Park.

The park recommends to stay at least 25 yds. away from Wildlife. A Grizzly can cover that in 3 seconds or less.

[bigbore442001]

I too like the bear threads but the biggest danger in the wilds seems to be on two legs. For the past couple of weeks I have been reading some stuff online by a man named David Paulides. He is a retired PO who wrote a book titled Missing 411. The main topic of his series of books is that across the US and Canada there are clusters of areas where people have more or less disappeared. He outlines cases and what is known but does not give a reason. Some people take off with the idea and believe ET's and Bigfoot are responsible.

Myself, I believe there are some dangerous people who will kill you for a clean pair of socks.

Anyways. I recall one of my cross country trips in the past. I was in Wyoming and going from Pinedale to Lander on this dirt road. I did not have a GPS nor cell phone. As I was going east I saw a man in the road. I was quite surprised to see a middle aged man wearing workbooks and denim shorts. That was it. We chatted for a minute about direction and he was AOK but it was still kind of odd to see someone like this in what is the middle of nowhere.

So although wildlife can be a great danger, the American ( or in some cases near the border Mexican-Central American) weirdo is the most dangerous thing in the back country.