razor
.327 Meteor
Posts: 523
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Post by razor on Sept 14, 2017 9:44:24 GMT -5
We are getting a lot of black bears here on the farm. The shots out of a tree stand would be from 10 to 25 yds. I would like to kill one with my Springfield 1911. I was thinking about using 230 XTP's or Hornandy 220 critical defense. I also have some underwood 255 swc at 900fps. I think it would work. What do you all think? I agree with everyone that a bigger gun would be better but I think a 45ACP would be enough. I have killed two with a 45 colt and it did fine. Something I have learn with a handgun is when you shoot something is to wait about 30 or 45 minutes before you go looking for the animal. That is what the bow hunters do and it works real good I think.
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Sept 14, 2017 10:10:00 GMT -5
How big are the bears there ? If the 255s are accurate and reliable . I would use them . I never shoot a bear just once. Regardless of what cart I'm shooting. Bears muscles are about 6 times denser than a strong man's . Rapidly expanding low velocity bullets may not penetrate deep enough.
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Post by bula on Sept 14, 2017 11:47:30 GMT -5
The choice of a HP bullet in effect makes you a bowhunter. A broadside heart/lung shot your only option. Double the wait time you mention please. After the initial shot, yes, pile in anymore you can if possible. Luck.
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Post by warhawk on Sept 14, 2017 11:53:01 GMT -5
I'd use the cast bullet. I had 44 Magnum XTP bullets fail to penentrate on a cow elk. I won't use them any more, certainly not on anything bigger/tougher than a deer.
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Post by sheriff on Sept 14, 2017 15:45:53 GMT -5
Go with the cast 255's at 900........ Just make sure they feed and the gun locks in battery.
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cmillard
.375 Atomic
MOLON LABE
Posts: 1,943
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Post by cmillard on Sept 14, 2017 16:38:16 GMT -5
I also would do a cast bullet. If a hp was what u wanted, i would do a speer gdhp
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450ak
.30 Stingray
Posts: 458
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Post by 450ak on Sept 14, 2017 18:12:18 GMT -5
Saeco #058 with seven of unique or a little more of power pistol. That bullet will cut a nice hole for a ways
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Post by sixshot on Sept 14, 2017 22:20:11 GMT -5
Shooting from that close you should be able to hit a very small spot with great accuracy. Remember when shooting down you need to know where the bullet will end up, you don't want to miss vitals on the way out. If you can make a good double lung shot I would have no problem using the XTP bullet. The second round in my gun would be the cast bullets if you are 100% sure they will cycle because that second shot will be at the rear most likely so pound that bear with a steady hand until it's down or gone. You should hear the death moan within a few seconds if your first shot was fatal.
Don't expect much of a blood trail, the long hair many times plugs the holes, even on an exit, sometimes not. If you decide to go with the cast bullets I would break both front shoulders, nothing moves if the front end can't steer!
One last thing, if it were me, & this is just me, but if I were using a semi auto I would have the safety off & either my left thumb between the frame & hammer or an ear plug stuck in there. If you flip that safety off you'll see just how fast a bear can move, you'll never have a chance.
Dick
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cmillard
.375 Atomic
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Posts: 1,943
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Post by cmillard on Sept 15, 2017 5:19:21 GMT -5
I might also add that a clark custom .460 rowland barrel kit would be a better option if you doubt the ACP
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GSSP
.30 Stingray
Posts: 109
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Post by GSSP on Sept 15, 2017 8:26:31 GMT -5
Of what you have, I'd use the Underwood 255 swc @ 900 fps if it's reliable. If you're looking for something new, i'd contact Veral Smith of LBT fame and have him make a LFN-PB 230 gr mold for you. You could also try a few by ordering the same LBT bullet from Montana Bullet Works. The bullet's .335" wide (74%) meplat should crush plenty of tissue and vitals as it's going through. A few years back I decided to see what that bullet would do in my Ed Brown Special Forces model. I first swapped out the recoil spring for a heavier, 20 lb spring so the frame doesn't take a beating. I then tried Power Pistol, AA5 and Longshot with AA5 give me the highest velocities and the best accuracy. I had no issues getting over 900 fps, even into the mid 900 fps range. In the past 9 yrs i've cast and loaded this bullet, i've run somewhat over 10,000 through my SF model without a single hiccup. Well, actually, the gun did fail to pick up the top round in the mag after I swapped back to my standard velocity ammo with the LBT bullet; I forgot to swap out the 20 lb spring for my every day standard power spring. www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-acp-lbt-230gr-lfn-pb/
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gunzo
.30 Stingray
Posts: 423
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Post by gunzo on Sept 15, 2017 8:45:01 GMT -5
While you're browsing Montana Bullet Works check out the 215 grain Saeco 58 SWC. A big meplat & it actually feeds in a properly made 1911. I've been playing with those & think they have good short range hunting potential. Think they can be driven at a thousand without beating up the gun. Magnus also sells them in bulk, called the bowling pin bullet.
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razor
.327 Meteor
Posts: 523
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Post by razor on Sept 15, 2017 8:54:45 GMT -5
I want to think everyone for the advice. My gun feeds the underwood 255 cast just fine. Have you all seen the luckygunner.com bullet tests? Good to look at for defense bullets.
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Post by bigmuddy on Sept 15, 2017 22:17:13 GMT -5
Another vote for the Saeco. Don't hear a lot about this bullet but I think it just might be the best choice in the a.c.p. Also the H&G #68 can be driven to 1100 fps and still be at standard (not +p) pressures. If someone was saying they were shooting a black bear with a 200 gr. cast @1100 fps in a 10mm at a black bear not too many folks would tell them they were under gunned, so the 45 would be even better.
My choice of those you listed would, as others have said, be the 255's!!! That is essentially a 45 Colt in a self cocker.
Good luck and share the pics!
Dan
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Post by dougader on Sept 15, 2017 23:12:03 GMT -5
We are getting a lot of black bears here on the farm. The shots out of a tree stand would be from 10 to 25 yds. I would like to kill one with my Springfield 1911. I was thinking about using 230 XTP's or Hornandy 220 critical defense. I also have some underwood 255 swc at 900fps. I think it would work. What do you all think? I agree with everyone that a bigger gun would be better but I think a 45ACP would be enough. I have killed two with a 45 colt and it did fine. Something I have learn with a handgun is when you shoot something is to wait about 30 or 45 minutes before you go looking for the animal. That is what the bow hunters do and it works real good I think. What was your load with the 45 Colt? You've killed at least 2 more black bears than I have. I only ran into one while fishing way upstream, away from civilization one time. I was only carrying a Glock 19 at the time, and boy was I glad to see him skee-daddle away from me the second he saw me. That was the last time I carried a 9mm fishing alone, away from the city. I was carrying a Glock 21 sf set up for 45 Super, loaded with a Beartooth 265 grain WFNGC to right at 1033 fps. I also carry that same bullet loaded to about 1000 fps in my 45 Colt Montado. How big do the black bear run around your ranch? They're not too big here... usually. But my dentist ran into a big, mean old bruin that killed 1 or 2 good dogs and wounded a couple others. Treed, he dropped right down into the middle of the hunters before they could even get a shot off.
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GSSP
.30 Stingray
Posts: 109
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Post by GSSP on Sept 16, 2017 7:35:43 GMT -5
Properly stoked, a 9mm can be viable if that is all one has. This ammo runs 1087 fps from my 5.11" CZ 75b. Still prefer something starting with .4 but, it's dooable. Phil is a very well known and accomplished Brown Bear guide and is well published. www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388
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