Starting my 44-40 reloading and have an issue

[m113a3]

Hi All,

Ran into an issue I have not found an answer for yet. Just starting reloading 44-40 for a Uberti Schofield and of my first five test rounds 2 will not chamber even though there was no change in the die setup. I know I am missing something just don't know what..?

Magtech brass
200gr RNFP .428 (Desperado Bullet)
6.9 grains Unique (my starting point)



Thanks

[bradshaw]

Jun 23, 2017 19:33:23 GMT -5 m113a3 said:

Hi All,

Ran into an issue I have not found an answer for yet. Just starting reloading 44-40 for a Uberti Schofield and of my first five test rounds 2 will not chamber even though there was no change in the die setup. I know I am missing something just don't know what..?

Magtech brass
200gr RNFP .428 (Desperado Bullet)
6.9 grains Unique (my starting point)



Thanks

*****

Try each round in each chamber and report back. The problem is either a tight chamber (or 2), or flawed cartridges.
David Bradshaw

[nolongcolt]

Chambers vary somewhat from gun to gun in this cal. Assuming your OAL is good, chances are the bullet is making the neck too fat for the chamber, I have run into this before. It may be that you need a little smaller diameter bullet. I use that same bullet in my Colt SAA and it works well with Win brass but not Rem brass. Try a different brass or a smaller bullet. Most jacketed slugs are .429 or .430 but Win did make a .426 for .44-40. Another thing that comes up is shoulder position. Have you tried any factory rounds in this gun? That can tell you a lot. If factory fodder wont fit there is an issue, but I bet it does.

[bullseye]

I've read several articles by Mike Venturino in Handloader magazine where he has stated that most dies made in the last 30 or so years do not set the shoulder of 44-40 cases back far enough to allow proper chambering in modern manufactured guns. This has never been an issue for me as my RCBS 44-40 die set was made in the 70's.

[sixer]

I did run into this issue also. I have loaded with both RCBS and Lee dies and both showed the same problem. My solution was to grind 1/16" off the bottom of the die using a surface grinder. This allowed the shoulder to be set back further. I actually had to do this for both .44-40 and .38-40. If you dont have the skills to do this, I suggest finding a machinist.

[jdoc]

Jun 24, 2017 12:58:52 GMT -5 sixer said:

I did run into this issue also. I have loaded with both RCBS and Lee dies and both showed the same problem. My solution was to grind 1/16" off the bottom of the die using a surface grinder. This allowed the shoulder to be set back further. I actually had to do this for both .44-40 and .38-40. If you dont have the skills to do this, I suggest finding a machinist.

I had to the same mods to my sizer dies in these calibers.

[bigmuddy]

A good place to start your trouble shooting is to try loading your unloaded brass in each chamber. If it won't go, then sixer's solution may be in order. I have modified the dies this way with my 38 w.c.f.'s. I am betting that new un-fired brass goes right in.

If the brass goes in easily unloaded but not after seating/crimping the bullets then you have narrowed it down some. Now you need to see if it is bullet diameter or crimp. Seat your bullets and try chambering with no crimp applied. I have done this with loaded rounds that seat fine before crimping but not after. Even though no bulge was clearly visible there was one, enough to prevent chambering. You can adjust your level of crimp and see if that fixes the issue. It may be that you need to use .428 bullets.

It should go without saying to make sure you are seating bullets and crimping in two separate steps. I ended up going to a Lee factory crimp die to get a nice crimp with no bulge that allowed easy chambering of my 44 w.c.f's.

Good luck.

Dan

[nolongcolt]

bigmuddy's post is right and it reminded me of something else too, a pet peeve of mine that you may or may not be aware of. That is true or actual bullet diameter with cast bullets. Jacketed you can pretty much believe they are within a half thousands of what the box says, not so with commercial cast. They are almost always oversize by as much as a few thousands so double check diameter. I use those Desperado bullets and they shoot well, but they are cast and I had to send some back to them for being oversized to the point I couldn't shoot them in my Colt. When I order cast bullets for a specific size I ask the maker to make them that size and not over.

[m113a3]

Thanks for all the replies - I just got back from a long day but I will review all the comments and get back to you on Sunday.

[m113a3]

Hi All,

Did a little test to try to get to the bottom of this. I took 5 cleaned and deprimed cases and check to see if the fit. Then I resized them and checked again and so far so good. Next I set up the expander so I can test seat the bullet. This is where the problem starts... I did 1/4 turns to slowly set the die up so the bullet (.428 although a few are .429) would just seat the bullet nice and square. Once done checked to see if it would chamber and if only fit about 80%.

The odd thing is that the first 5 rounds I mentioned only 2 of five did not fit.

What am I missing?

BTW I am using the RCBS Cowboy dies.

Thanks

[magman]

Did you crimp? I just started loading 44-40 and had a little problem myself. I got it figured out(I think). I had to order a separate crimp, but when that comes I should be golden. FWIW, mine accepts .430 bullets.

[bigmuddy]

From the start you have had some that would chamber and some that would not. (Two of five not fitting is only 60% fitting btw). It seems to me that you do have some inconsistent chamber sizes, not all that uncommon really. I am guessing that you have some chamber throats that are too tight and if you can get them all reamed to the same size you're in business.

I am assuming that when you got loaded rounds fitting in some and not the others, they were not crimped yet. You can try applying light crimp seeing if they will then fit in the culprit chambers. If not, keep increasing crimp gradually to see if it helps. If that fails I'm going to say that you have some chamber throats that are excessively tight and accuracy will suffer if not reamed to consistency.

The 38 w.c.f and 44 w.c.f are both fun cartridges and are a joy to shoot, but both come with "bugs" that need to be worked out in the loading process. Once they are resolved you'll find it was worth the effort.

Dan

[nolongcolt]

Get a LEE factory crimp die. It not only crimps the case but also sizes it the whole case to spec. You can feel your rounds going over high spots while running into the die. I use them for several rounds.

[m113a3]

Hi all thanks again for the replies.

So of the first 5 rounds all were crimped using the lee factory crimp whereas the new test round was not. The picture I posted shows the crimp is that too lite of a crimp? To test the cylinders I will try each one of the first 5 rounds and try them in each chamber and let you all know. As for the first test round of the second group I have not applied the crimp yet.

I forgot to mention that the factory rounds had no issues fitting the chamber.

[hardscrabble]

I started out with the 44-40 in CAS about 25 years ago. I had nothing but problems with them. I later went to 38-40's and have not had any problem with them. The problem with 44-40's is that they mix 44-40 parts and 44 Magnum parts in the guns randomly. They don't do that with the 38-40.

I have no experience with the Shofield. The two 44-40 rifles (Marlin and Rossi) and two 44-40 pistols (Ruger Vaqueros) had completely different chamber and barrel dimensions when compared to each other. I could get a bullet diameter, weight, shape, and lube that would work with one, but it would be downright bad in one of the other guns. I NEVER managed to get any load that worked in all of them.

There are many possible problem areas. One has been mentioned. Shortening the sizing die so that the shoulder is set farther back was necessary for me. Another is the bullet diameter. The diameters of 44-40 bullets should be 0.427". The chambers in my Ruger 44-40's would not let any bullet over 0.427" into the chamber. The 0.429"-0.430" ones you are using would be a non-starter. However, their barrels were 0.430". That meant shooting a 0.427" bullet through it gave poor accuracy. Also, the throat ahead of the chamber was bad in the Rugers, being 0.424" in diameter. I later had them reamed out to 0.430" to match the barrel. That helped a bit, but did not completely solve the problems.

The dies (Lee and RCBS) I bought for the 44-40 were set up for 0.430" bullets. If you do use 0.427" bullets, you need to buy a new neck expander or have the old one turned down. I shortened the Lee sizing die because it was much cheaper. I don't use the RCBS sizing die.

Interestingly, both of my rifles had chambers with necks large enough to chamber and shoot 0.430" bullets. However, both worked better with even larger bullets. The Marlin had microgroove rifling and the Rossi had an oversized barrel. The cases came out of the chambers looking straight, though, meaning a short case life.

I have sworn off 44-40's.