dmad
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 67 
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Post by dmad on Jun 22, 2017 21:07:52 GMT -5
Not sure if I'm in the right forum to ask but here goes. For packing in bear country while hiking or fishing, how important is multiple shots? I'm not talking about hunting and waiting for a good shot. I'm talking about maybe catching a sow with cubs by surprise or moose with calfs. Things will probably be fast and close. Would it be preferable to have a powerful gun like a short barreled 500, 44 mag or 454 vs say a 10mm or 357 Mag? Charging animal will be moving quickly, as well as bouncing target. Just wondering that recoil of a big gun may not give you time to recover if first shot misses and doesn't stop animal? But then a 10 mm or 357 has less power to stop game but more controllable for quick follow up. What do you think?
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JM
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,428
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Post by JM on Jun 22, 2017 21:17:56 GMT -5
Always use the Buddy System & make sure that you can run faster than your buddy. |
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Post by sixshot on Jun 23, 2017 0:26:39 GMT -5
Shoot the biggest gun you can handle accurately & quickly, misses aren't going to help you much. Now there is pepper spray, works great on eggs & hash browns & the recoil isn't bad either.
Dick
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Post by whitworth on Jun 23, 2017 4:06:47 GMT -5
Shoot the biggest gun you can handle accurately & quickly, misses aren't going to help you much. Now there is pepper spray, works great on eggs & hash browns & the recoil isn't bad either. Dick We call that a condiment for the bear - makes man taste a whole lot better! |
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jun 23, 2017 9:19:37 GMT -5
Guess it depends on how accurate you are or can be for .5 to 2.0 seconds??? After being caught unaware, and surprised.
Trapr
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gjn
.30 Stingray
Posts: 491
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Post by gjn on Jun 23, 2017 9:32:12 GMT -5
I hike quite a bit in grizzly country and have wrestled with that same question. The bottom line is I currently carry a Glock Model 20 10mm with 200 grain FP FMJ's in a Guide D holster most of the time. Occasionally I can be found with a 45 Colt or one of the Linebaugh's. Hopefully I'll never find out if I choose wisely!
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Post by bula on Jun 23, 2017 9:45:59 GMT -5
This is a shoot until threat eliminated thing. A well respected guide recently made a 9mm work for him and clients. The logic kinda works, and a very specific load was used. I'm not ready to embrace that logic yet and live with a 5-shot 44spec Bulldog on my person that gets swapped out for a M69 when I believe that to be a wise choice, per possible threats. Have an itch for a more packable 480 to go with the 6.5" BSBH here that is a hunting arm.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jun 23, 2017 10:11:59 GMT -5
I have a pair of Ruger Alaskans for that purpose one in 454 Casull & one in 480 Ruger... both are 6 shot revolvers, plus I've found the recoil is less & I can shoot faster with the "snubbie" barrel... the disadvantage is the shorter sight radius... but most often, this is a "point shooting" situation
BTW... my 15 Round 10 mm would likely work... don't think I'd feel undergunned... I just shoot revolvers better typically, & the Alaskan is set up well for me ( both have aftermarket fiber optic sights... which don't work for bullseye shooting but seem to work great for speed shooting )
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jun 23, 2017 10:18:59 GMT -5
If accuracy is needed to be effective, then "point shooting" is not the way to accomplish it.
I'll substitute IPSC as an analogy,......when practicing a "Bill drill" your sights are focused on if you want points or accuracy!! Slinging lead by pointing is not going to get you the desired results.
Funniest comment I ever heard was,......if point shooting was so effective, woman wouldn't complain about men hitting the toilet so much.
Trapr
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jun 23, 2017 10:32:01 GMT -5
DOG... lol... to a point I agree... so let me rephrase... the revolvers point more naturally or instinctively ( for me )
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Post by bula on Jun 23, 2017 10:32:32 GMT -5
I hosted a personal protection detail course and the Tier-One type that came, gave the class, would walk around point shooting the yellow dandelion flowers in the grass with his airsoft Glock. Seldom missed the 2" at best targets and never brought the gun up to eye level. Point shooting accuracy possible to the skilled and motivated. I haven't achieved that level. Probably won't.But it's there, possible. I still haven't gotten around to rigging up a bear kinda target to a little red wagon to be ATV towed. I keep mentioning the idea but then..sigh. Skills can be learned, then honed, then maintained. If only.. Then ya get the guy that tells ya to file off your front sight..blah blah.. Better to plan for success y a think?
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Post by bula on Jun 23, 2017 10:46:01 GMT -5
For what it worth, I plan on using the sights. A flash sight picture at best. Critter inbound and angry, etc.. Target moving, range constantly changing. The worst kinda shooting to have to do. I wish anyone that finds themselves in that spot, LUCK ! I have very seldom shot at indoor ranges, but have shot at the target while returning from farthest position. Likely broke a few rules right there..but it is un-nerving to have target/threat inbound.. Others here have experience with this and can go further down the path.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jun 23, 2017 11:15:37 GMT -5
Bula, a good friend who also did the training for Keanu Reeves in the John Wick series,.....Taran Butler. Can clean a plate rack from the hip, very swiftly!!., However he uses his sights when it matters.
Granted it can be done, I tend to resort to target focus when the target is 7 yds or closer, and can do so with enough accuracy for consistent upper A zone hits. But that comes from ten of thousands of weapons presentations with a consistent grip and gun configuration,(1911 or Glock). So it can be done, but it takes lots of practice and failure.
Trapr
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Post by bula on Jun 23, 2017 11:32:02 GMT -5
Amen.
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Post by mart on Jun 23, 2017 12:08:30 GMT -5
A couple of years ago I attended training for my job, in which polar and brown bear intervention is a large part, conducted by Dr. Tom White. Dr. White is a bear researcher and has spent a great deal of his career studying bears, primarily browns. He compiled some interesting statistics on Alaska bear encounters with firearms and pepper spray. I'll offer no opinion on this and present this as information only and you can draw your own conclusions. These stats are roughly ten years old and don't include updates since then.
In 103 reported cases of pepper spray being used as a deterrent in a bear charge, the following stats applied.
92% of the time, the application of spray altered the bears behavior and course of travel in a positive manner. In the remaining 8% the bear continued its line of travel, sometimes knocking the person down but not attacking, instead continuing on away from the person.
98% of the time the application of spray resulted in an uninjured bear or person (other than OC exposure)
3 persons reported minor injuries from the bear encounter. No serious injuries
14% reported secondary exposure to the spray. Mostly due to wind direction at the time of use.
In 444 reported events where a firearm was used to stop a bear attack 122 persons suffered injuries from minor to fatal. The stats he presented didn't break out the number of injuries by severity.
Bear guns, and specifically handguns, has to be one the most often debated topics on shooting forums. Sixshot summed it up well in his statement to use the biggest gun you can shoot accurately and quickly. Don't get so carried away though with quick that you sacrifice accurate. There's an old adage in law enforcement that, "you cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight." The same applies to bear attacks.
I've been fortunate in my few bear encounters. I've never had to use either a firearm or pepper spray and my encounters have ended peacefully for both myself and the bears.
Personally, when I'm fishing or doing float trips, I carry a revolver, 401 mag or larger, and pepper spray. Rifle hunting I'm not as likely to have a handgun but will have pepper spray.
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