CCI Big Four.38/357

[bulasteve]

I see CCI's has a variant on their shotshells. Looks to be the Blazer aluminum hull with a red plastic capsule to differentiate from the blue capsules that have small shot. These have #4shot and are in 38/357 for time being. A pest loading for small mammals and such. Your thoughts on useage ? I loaded a bunch of 357 for a friend using the blue capsule that can be bought. We used several shot sizes up to #4 and even mixed, duplex loadings. I haven't gotten any feedback from this friend. He wanted them for an SP101. His camp/fishing gun.

[dougader]

I Just loaded some Speer capsules in 45 Colt with #4 shot I had left over from loading 12 gauge shells for a sage grouse hunt. If I get out to the range today I'll let you know how they do.

[dougader]

These were fired from a 3-3/4" Ruger Montado.

170 grain Speer 45 Colt shot capsule, filled with #4 birdshot, over 6.1 grains W231:

3 ft: solid pattern about the size of my palm, centered an inch or so below point of aim. Pattern of 3" to 3-1/2".

6 ft: most pellets covered by my hand with fingers spread wide. About a 8-9 inch pattern centered an inch left of center and about 1/2" below point of aim.

9 ft: most all pellets outside of 10 inch circle from point of aim. Only 3 pellets in center bullseye, less than 10 pellets around outer edge of 10" circle.

I'm thinking to lower the powder charge by 1/2 grain to see if the 9' pattern shrinks any...

The cardboard backing was obliterated with the 3 test shots, though.

I have the targets, but the camera is charging. I'll get pictures posted later.

[bulasteve]

Yeah, I'd drop the powder charge a grain and try again. Shot loads will be centered low from POA, sure you know, lack of recoil compared to regular loadings. It's just fun to see how many of lifes little problems can be solved with our favorite tools. I need a load for un-clogging drains ! Cleaning the gutters ? Killed a mouse in my basement Sunday using my Bulldog 44spec and a couple of my rice loads.

[dougader]

Here are my targets at 3 ft, 6 ft and 9ft:

[magnumwheelman]

9 ft... the dreaded donut

[dougader]

Yep. Gonna back off the powder charge and see if it tightens up a bit.

[bulasteve]

Well, my first thought is, your 45 has a good bit more payload space than the 38/357 loading has. Better able to handle a useable amount of the larger shot. So, with the use of a larger shot, we can add varmints and small game of larger size to the target list. We also have to consider possible collateral damage when used around the homestead, compared to the 9 shot and smaller loads. Ok, so what critters will we be adding to the possibles list ? At inside the chicken coop ranges, maybe even as large as coyote ? Certainally rabbits and the larger birds can be added to the list. With small charges of fast burners, have you considered going after the possibly left space between the powder and the capsule ? Maybe put a wad over the powder and fill the space between with 9 shot ?

[dougader]

I'd hesitate to use my 45 Colt loads on rabbits unless I was at 3 ft or so. The payload is still kind of light IMO.

Another point about the powder charge being too heavy is that some pieces of shot were totally smashed flat and misshapen and then failed to penetrate the cardboard backer.

Speer 14 lists their shot capsule as 150 grains, but I got 170 grains of the number 4 shot in mine. I'll take the advice above and drop back a grain on the W231 and shoot more paper.

[dougader]

Steve, I have some 7-1/2 shot left over from my days of sporting clays matches. I could try that, or cut open a couple dove loads I have lying around.

The Speer capsules are expensive. When these run out I'm going to look at paper and/or gas check wads for over powder and over shot.

But the idea of using both an over powder wad and the capsule is interesting...

[bulasteve]

I cut open shotgun shells to get the 9,8,7 1/2,6, and 4's we used with the blue capsules in 38/357 for a friend. Myself, I've used wads and glue in 44 and 480. Someone here mentioned going after that wasted space between powder and the bottom of the capsule, can't claim that'n for myself. Keep shining that light forward, others are following !

[dougader]

There's a guy on the cast boolits site who uses blank brass in his 45 and runs the longer "neck" through a 44 mag (?) die so it fits full length.

[cherokeetracker]

Doug, I don't know if the blank cartridges are cheaper than 460 brass. ( I am talking for the 45) But the same thing can be dome to take a 460 neck it down and trim it if needed. Don't forget that you can use vegetable wads from Ballistic products, and or just use some cardboard wad between powder and shot. I have used card material (such as Do-nut box or primer box ) and I have used clear fingernail polish to seal it after I mark what shot it is. If you want to spend the money you can use Gas checks in both places or even just use one, for the "Over Shot" I admit it makes a fine looking cartridge.
As far as shot goes,, The smaller cartridges such as the 32"s and 357's I have found it better to stay with #9 shot or even #12 if you can find it or want to spend the money. With the 44 and 45 I have gone to #9, #8. While it is nice to have the extra shot such as using the capsules, it is not an absolute necessity. Food for thought I have made some for the 500 and when you get that big you can handle the 7 1/2 shot or you can also go a little smaller and use Nickle plated shot. It holds up to the pressure and velocity. It does not flatten.

Charles

[dougader]

Excellent info! I read about 25 pages on birdshot, ratshot today. I do recall one gent using 460 brass for his 45 Colt shotshells, thereby using the full length of his cylinder and increasing the payload accordingly.

[f3]

I discard the base plug in the speer capsules and fill them mounded over. I then put an over powder card in the case and put it onto the capsule. But with 6 shot in the 45 colt I was getting roughly half the amount of pellets as the factory shot load. With 9 shot I think it could be a viable stationary game load. I have shot quite a few quail with the 44 factory shot load and worked well out of a rifle. Range was definitely limited to 10 yards or so.