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Post by magnumwheelman on Jun 2, 2016 10:04:33 GMT -5
I actually load 444 Marlin like a 3" .410 shell... I've never really been impressed with the patterns from the rifled barrels, except from my custom 44 Hot Shot Contender barrel, that I chambered for 444... I can load a lighter charge & put a bullet down the rifled pipe, or screw in the straight rifled choke tube, & shoot either buck or shot ( also have some mixed buck & shot loads, that pattern quite well ) think it might be pretty easy to thread a barrel for a silencer, then also make a straight rifled adapter, that would screw onto the same threads... I bought felt wads & cardboard that I seal off the end of the case with a decent roll crimp, which saves me the glue
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Post by dougader on Jun 2, 2016 17:27:45 GMT -5
I sized down the mouth end of some old FA 454 brass, first with a 45 Colt die, then with a 45 auto taper crimp die, then with a 44 Special size die. This lets me use the slightly longer brass in my 45 Colt revolver. One split, so I annealed the rest. I punched out some card wads with a sharpened 44 Special case and used old primer box cardboard. Dropped in 5 grains of IMR 7625, placed an over powder card/wad (OPW), then 200 grains of #8 shot. I cut open some old field loads I'd made up a LONG time ago and used both the #8 shot and the IMR 7625 powder. I placed an over shot card/wad (OSW), pressed it in place with the bottom end of a Lee plastic dipper and then topped it good ol' Elmers glue.
I only get about 153 grains of shot in the 45 Colt Speer shot capsules (170 grain total weight with the plastic capsules).
With 45 Colt brass, I dropped the powder and an OPW then dropped in 30 grains of shot, then seated the shot capsule for a total shot charge of 183 grains...
I'll see if I can get to the range early Saturday morning. It's supposed to reach 97 - 102 degrees this weekend so I won't be shooting in the afternoon.
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Post by bulasteve on Jun 11, 2016 8:56:25 GMT -5
Fingers crossed here..
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Post by dougader on Jun 11, 2016 12:32:14 GMT -5
I'm hoping to get out today to test some of these shot loads!
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Post by dougader on Jun 11, 2016 19:47:46 GMT -5
Well, the 200 grains of #8 shot in the necked down 454 brass definitely throws a better pattern, even at 9 feet, which is far enough away, IMO, that I probably wouldn't shoot a snake.
The problem is, the shot seems to be flying really slow...so slow that some pellets don't have enough steam to penetrate the cardboard backer of my target.
I'm thinking I need something heavier for an over shot card, something that can be crimped in and give a little more resistance to get the powder burning. Maybe some gas checks.
The 45 Colt brass with an extra dose of shot on top of the over-powder card and then the Speer shot capsule on top gives about 186 grains of #8 shot and the lightly crimped capsule gives more resistance to get the powder burning. It groups ok, but not quite as good as the above mentioned loads with Elmers glue and the overshot card.
Some of the basic capsules with about 153 grains of #8 shot (170 grains total weight) and only 5 grains of the 7625 patterned much better than my first loads with 6 grains of 231. You can't pull those capsules without breaking them so I'll just use them as is.
More testing is in order!
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Post by bulasteve on Jun 12, 2016 9:00:55 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Post by dougader on Jun 12, 2016 16:30:00 GMT -5
Oh, no problem with case setback, either. Pressure was too low to make much movement on the necked down 454 cases at all.
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Post by minuteman on Jun 12, 2016 18:39:18 GMT -5
Once upon a time i tried these variations in 45 Colt and was surprised by the results.
Started with Starline Brass, charge of Unique, case full of #9 shot and a glued in over shot wad made of thin cardboard. Good to around 6-7' and then the spread made it worthless.
Next, I borrowed a few of the blue capsules and loaded to 1.6" but results weren't much better.
Then I took some old 2.5" 410 shotshell, cut the crimp off and emptied the whole thing. Trimmed the hull to just fit the Ruger cylinder, charged with Unique and trimmed the shot wad to fit just below the end. Filled her up with #9 shot and glued thin cardboard over shot. Less shot but better patterns out to around 12'. OAL ended up at 1.385"
My only guess is that the 410 wads keep the shot off the rifling better and gives a tighter pattern out further? Never got around to using longer brass or seeing if the 410 wads would fit in them.
Tinkering sure is fun though.
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jsh
.327 Meteor
Posts: 884
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Post by jsh on Jun 12, 2016 21:21:31 GMT -5
From folks I have talked to,and articles and threads I have read it seems barrel length and twist will have a lot to do with patterns. My first experience with the shot capsules a SW victory that had been bubba'd, was interesting. Best pattern,but worst results. Shot capsule lodged in the forcing cone and locked up the cylinder, shot blew out the end of the capsule. Good tight group, but it bounced off of a paper plate at about 15 feet. Shot left dots on the paper from the lead. Was gifted some 38SW brass and just loaded the shot capsule to 38 special length. Barrel has been cut back to about 3-4"
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Post by cherokeetracker on Jun 12, 2016 22:06:17 GMT -5
I sized down the mouth end of some old FA 454 brass, first with a 45 Colt die, then with a 45 auto taper crimp die, then with a 44 Special size die. This lets me use the slightly longer brass in my 45 Colt revolver. One split, so I annealed the rest. I punched out some card wads with a sharpened 44 Special case and used old primer box cardboard. Dropped in 5 grains of IMR 7625, placed an over powder card/wad (OPW), then 200 grains of #8 shot. I cut open some old field loads I'd made up a LONG time ago and used both the #8 shot and the IMR 7625 powder. I placed an over shot card/wad (OSW), pressed it in place with the bottom end of a Lee plastic dipper and then topped it good ol' Elmers glue. I only get about 153 grains of shot in the 45 Colt Speer shot capsules (170 grain total weight with the plastic capsules). With 45 Colt brass, I dropped the powder and an OPW then dropped in 30 grains of shot, then seated the shot capsule for a total shot charge of 183 grains... I'll see if I can get to the range early Saturday morning. It's supposed to reach 97 - 102 degrees this weekend so I won't be shooting in the afternoon. Doug, I suggested some vegetable wads, but if not, do use a little heavier card if possible. That's one thing. The next is the powders you are using are way too slow. Need Fast burning powders. Titewad, Red Dot Bullseye,, etc etc. Next where was your crimp?? It is going to take a little roll crimp to get your pressures up. Elmers glue without a crimp, won't do the trick. Just a little roll crimp will hold that top card in place. Glue or fingernail polish is not necessary. The only reason I have ever used a sealant is to help waterproof or moisture proof the cardboard. I have loaded up this stuff before and not used it till years later. Charles
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Post by dougader on Jun 12, 2016 23:13:40 GMT -5
I got you, Charles, but have not found vegetable wads. I do have Red Dot. The sticker on the Hercules bottle says $13.75.
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Post by cherokeetracker on Jun 13, 2016 13:16:09 GMT -5
Doug, Just use some heavier Card board for the Over Powder card ( or wad ) whatever you want to call it. If you really want to use the vegetable wad material or can even use some cork,, That can be found at Ballistic Products. But to me price wise,, I just go cheap for recreational stuff. That's why I have not used Gas checks all the time. But Yes, there is times when they are necessary, or just plain better to use. Lots of times it's the Speer Plastic piece or the Gas Check that kills the snake anyway. ( Not the shot) Didn't ever mention this,, and figured you probably practiced this method,,, And that was to use a wooden dowel to push the card into the case, to help ease, and make sure that the card board or cork or wad is down in the correct position, and on top of the powder. We don't want air space. I usually Mark the depth of Powder with an Ink Pen ( Or Ultra Fine Sharpie ) This way I know I am at the correct depth. I by the way if you don't have just the right thickness of cardboard,,, Just use 2 of the thinner pieces ( double stack ) Rock N Roll. As you might know,, I sand the dowel and Taper it, to fit as perfect as It Can to the brass.
FYI: ( As YOU Know) 1200 FPS is the average speed of most shotgun shells,,,,, So,, 900 to 1200 FPS should work just fine for these Snake Charmers.
Charles
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Post by Rimfire69 on Jun 14, 2016 7:01:00 GMT -5
We use the dowel trick to seat wads in Magtec drawn brass .410 cases. Wads are cardboard, cork, milk carton, primer boxs, or whatever is handy the day were loading. I dont crimp, but maby I should be. Have tried a couple of methods of securing the top wad in and have setteled on the wifes hot glue gun, its ready to shoot 5 min after its applied.
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