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Post by ezekiel38 on Jun 20, 2014 0:07:33 GMT -5
I recently jumped into the single action world after a 20 year hiatus. Bought a Ruger Bisley 44 Special. Trigger was atrocious, so off it goes to a gunsmith. Got it back with a nice 3" let off. 1st 100 rounds after trigger job was single action joy personified.
Tonight I drove out to the outdoor range a farmer friend has and decided to run my standard 44 Spl. round through it. 240lswc, 7grains of Unique and a CCI primer. Been shooting this load for 25 years.
First 6 rounds and gun just perking along. Next six, not so much, fired two rounds and then the hammer would not cock, cylinder would not turn. Massaged the hammer to the rear while rocking the cylinder, hammer came to the rear and the cylinder skipped a round and locked in on the second round in rotation.
Cylinder locked up, hammer back, caressed the trigger and the round fired and the round struck the POA.
hammer tried to come to the rear to the cocked position when attempted with my thumb. Again manipulated the cylinder and the cylinder rotated one round with hammer to rear. Gun was in battery so round under hammer fired. Hammer again refusing to move to the cocked position. Noticed that the loading gate was a third of the way open.
Brought the gun home and it dry fired and cycled perfectly with snap caps in the weapon,
Checked the barrel, cylinder gap and it appears to be 4-6 thousands of an inch. I'm really single action ignorant what could be doing this? Is there a problem with the loading gate? Any ideas on how to fix this.
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Post by benny123 on Jun 20, 2014 0:28:19 GMT -5
I'm glad I'm the first to cover one simple approach. Remove the cylinder and inspect the ratchet. Based on some of your experiences it's possible the groves are not smooth. This can result in being unable to lower hammer to full cock and jamming the action. The fact that you manually manipulated the cylinder while attempting to bring the hammer back leads me to think it could be worn. If those lands on the ratchet feel rough, you can use a high grit paper to smooth them. Looking under a magn. lens will reveal issues quickly. Just light easy forward strokes. Again, this may not be the source of the error but it's fairly easy to diagnose/fix if it is. Good luck and avoiding shooting it for now--safety first
....re-read your post. Shooting ~100 rounds without issue before these problems inclines me to think its something else. Presumably your firing pin didn't shear. I'm sure others will chime in with pointers.
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Post by bagdadjoe on Jun 20, 2014 9:16:07 GMT -5
Base pin firmly seated?
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Post by zeus on Jun 20, 2014 9:18:37 GMT -5
Where are you located?
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Post by jayhawker on Jun 20, 2014 9:19:10 GMT -5
I would 2nd the base pin. Not unusual.
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Post by needsmostuff on Jun 20, 2014 9:32:08 GMT -5
Noticed that the loading gate was a third of the way open. Does the loading gate feel "floppy " or not smooth . Loading gate spring may not be tucked in properly after dis/reassembly. |
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Post by AxeHandle on Jun 20, 2014 9:48:52 GMT -5
Look hard at your primers. Doesn't take much of a high primer to muck up the action.
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dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,825
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Post by dmize on Jun 20, 2014 10:11:29 GMT -5
Second what Axe said.
Also don't forget the chambers,lube and fouling can keep the round from dropping all the way in. They will hang up on the frame ledge opposite the loading gate.
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Post by ezekiel38 on Jun 20, 2014 12:46:24 GMT -5
Base pin appears to be secure. When you push on the end of the pin as it is in place it will move into the weapon by a 16th of an inch. The loading gate is smooth on opening and close with a small amount of effort. The loads, my handloads are done on a single stage press and I use a RCBS priming tool for bench resting and the primers are seated approximately 3/1000s below the surface of the case rim. Springs in the weapon are stock Ruger. The bullets are a commercial cast with a hard blue lube.
I live in north central Idaho.
I'm going to scrub the beast today and go to the range with the same load and see if the problem duplicates.
I spent 33 years carrying double action revolvers as part of my profession. I like this Ruger and enjoy stepping back and shooting a single action weapon. As a peace officer and firearms trainer, we never allowed our troops to fire a duty weapon single action. All quals and scenario training were DA shooting for speed and accuracy.
This single action shooting is a step back in time and it works well here in the edge of the wilderness.
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axel
.30 Stingray
Posts: 146
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Post by axel on Jun 21, 2014 14:27:07 GMT -5
As others have posted, check your base pin, and if that's not it, could be your ammo. .44 Special ammo loaded for my Freedom Arms Model 97 .44 Special will not work well in my Bisley .44 and SS flat top Rugers. Though the FA throats are tighter than those of the Ruger, the FA chambers are looser as proven with pin gauges. To conserve brass life, I only partially full length size brass for the FA, which works great with that gun, but the same ammo in the Ruger will often drag the case heads on the recoil shield tying the gun up, as the rounds are almost but not quite fully into battery. I have to segregate the ammo loaded for these two weapons.
If your base pin is and remains fully seated, look for drag marks on your cases in the head stamp area. If they appear, try moving your sizing die a little bit closer to your shell holder. Having read your original post again, it really does sound like a sizing issue. Ruger .44 Special chambers are on the tight side, and will cause this until you compensate for it. I had the exact same problem this past week with my new SS flat top. It was the sizing issue, which may not even show up on a case gauge. Mine/gauge is actually a little looser than my Ruger chambers. I have to test the ammo in the cylinder to be sure of proper Ruger die adjustment.
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Post by Doc Barranti on Jun 21, 2014 19:46:05 GMT -5
I witnessed one of the 44 special Flattops lock up completely. Once we got the cylinder out of the gun, we discovered the spring loaded ball/plunger that allows the cylinder to index properly for loading was causing the problem. Cocked the hammer, removed the set screw that holds it all in place and found the ball/plunger was mangled. The fix? Leave it out of the gun. You will now have a sixgun that free spins, and will never have to worry about it jamming up the gun again. I've done it to all my NM Flattops.
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Post by zeus on Jun 21, 2014 19:57:29 GMT -5
I witnessed one of the 44 special Flattops lock up completely. Once we got the cylinder out of the gun, we discovered the spring loaded ball/plunger that allows the cylinder to index properly for loading was causing the problem. Cocked the hammer, removed the set screw that holds it all in place and found the ball/plunger was mangled. The fix? Leave it out of the gun. You will now have a sixgun that free spins, and will never have to worry about it jamming up the gun again. I've done it to all my NM Flattops. I think I remember that sixgun....yet another hotel gunsmithing project.  |
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Post by Doc Barranti on Jun 21, 2014 20:24:00 GMT -5
There were quite a few that week!!
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axel
.30 Stingray
Posts: 146
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Post by axel on Jun 21, 2014 20:35:52 GMT -5
Let us know what you ultimately find out.
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Post by ezekiel38 on Jun 21, 2014 21:36:02 GMT -5
Thank you Axel, Mike and Zeus! I did a through cleaning of the Bisley today. The cylinders were scroddy, as in lead and powder residue in forward portion of cylinder. Vigorous cleaning with CLP. Barrel was fouled with powder residue but no lead streaking or buildup, anywhere in barrel from forcing cone to muzzle.WHEW!
Base pin locks in place and appears secure. Case heads are clean with no scraping, this also applies to the primers. Will shoot the Ruger again tomorrow, will report on results. I was surprised at how much lead and powder residue was in the cylinder for no more shooting than what occurred a 120 rounds.
Will report back tomorrow PM as I'm going to the country farmer range again tomorrow. I live in a town of less than a 1,000 people, so country is relative! Range is 7 miles from my house and it has a 25 yd pistol range and rifle range with benches up to 600 yds.
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