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Post by t5malibuwagon on Nov 9, 2012 23:57:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure that I fully understand how the height of the ratchet is going to make the cylinder turn more. The cylinder moves only as far as the hand pushes it. Stretching the hand shouldn't change the distance it moves or the degrees the cylinder moves. I will have to lengthen the distance between notches in the hand anyway in relationship with the distance from ratchet notch to ratchet notch. A 6 shot moves 60 degrees every shot were a 5 shot has to rotate 72 degrees. The way I'm thinking to push the cylinder around more the hand needs to travel farther. to do this the distance from the hammer pivot to the hand would need to increase so the same movement of the hammer moves the hand farther. Its late and this is making my head hurt, lol.
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Post by frankenfab on Nov 10, 2012 0:13:03 GMT -5
The hand doesn't push the cylinder the whole time it is moving. It travels a bit before engaging the ratchet tooth. If the ratchet tooth is lower, the pawl comes in contact with it sooner, so the cylinder starts turning sooner, giving more cylinder rotation over the full travel of the pawl. If I remember right, the 5 shot pawl is actually shorter than the 6 shot. I will try to get the pictures up tomorrow.
For example, I just picked up my 327 blackhawk. When I pull the hammer back, it is back about 3/8 of an inch before the pawl comes in contact with the cylinder and the cylinder starts to turn. It is an 8 shooter.
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Post by t5malibuwagon on Nov 10, 2012 11:37:10 GMT -5
Ok, I see what your saying. Any lost movement of the hand that could be used would make the cylinder turn more. I was just thinking that I would go look at my fathers 327 to see how its different from a 6gun.
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Post by frankenfab on Nov 10, 2012 13:55:04 GMT -5
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Post by t5malibuwagon on Nov 10, 2012 17:03:03 GMT -5
Frankenfab, thanks for those pics. I see what your saying with the hands and cylinders. The bottom picture really show the difference too. The 5 shot cylinder looks to have more of taper on the edge of the ratchet than the 6 does, interesting. These answer so many questions and are the reason I asked these questions. I'm sure that in time I could have made it all work but it probably would have taken a couple boxes of messed up parts. Thanks again.
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Post by t5malibuwagon on Nov 12, 2012 0:53:04 GMT -5
Looked at the 327 tonight and a side by side comparison of a 357B&D NM blackhawk and I couldn't tell the that cylinder started turning any sooner or later in relation to the hammers travel. I wonder if they might have moved the location of the pivot on the hammer when they went to the 8 shot setup. As both guns arnt mine I doubt that Ill tear them down to see. I guess at this point its more interesting to me than it is a need to know for making a 5 shot work. I just read a post over on the ruger forum from 2010ish where there was a guy asking about putting a 40s&w and 10mm into a single six. I noticed that many of the member that are over here added lots of sound advice. I don't have a ton of use for a 38 special and this is what sounds like the upper limit of the single six can safely handle. I need to run the numbers on the wall thickness and compare that to a known cartridge of the same pressure range so that I will have answer for myself. I have the feeling that what I'm thinking is far from a new idea. I want to learn the skills to build cylinders but it looks like I'm kinda back at the drawing board if a 40 smith wont fit safely at factory pressure levels. I dug though a couple of toolboxes of tooling tonight and I think that matching up the right tool to make the correct shape of each part of the cylinder might be easier than I had thought. I even found several of the cutters shaped to cut flutes, don't know what the heck they are even called but I know what I'm going to use them for... hahaha.
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Post by wildwillalaska on Nov 12, 2012 1:15:24 GMT -5
Man this is so far above my head its no wonder why I love shootin guns more than building. T5, your likely looking for a custom blank, but if a Ruger barrel will do, I have an old model I need to send off to Gallagher for a conversion that's already in-line, just waiting on the octagon 45 barrel and my turn. I have use for grip frame and hammer ( putting in a power custom bisley hammer and #5 frame) but no plans for the barrel. If you want it, would happily pass it along for cost of shipping--I'm not going to use it.
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Post by frankenfab on Nov 12, 2012 13:53:35 GMT -5
I guess maybe you should disregard my comment about hammer travel. I've noticed it seems to be about the same. The pivot hole hasn't been moved. Also the way the pawl length and ratchet setup is changed appears to be the reason the cylinder free wheels on the 500. My 500 has a stock bolt, no extra leg or anything.
I just put a Bisley hammer in my 327 8 shooter BH, and other than removing the hump, it was a drop-in. I love it!
I will post more as I study more and get a better understanding myself. I'm sure there are multiple methods of changing things for different numbers of charge holes, I just want one way that works.
If I could get a junk frame, I'd make a cutaway.
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Post by t5malibuwagon on Nov 12, 2012 19:46:17 GMT -5
Man this is so far above my head its no wonder why I love shootin guns more than building. T5, your likely looking for a custom blank, but if a Ruger barrel will do, I have an old model I need to send off to Gallagher for a conversion that's already in-line, just waiting on the octagon 45 barrel and my turn. I have use for grip frame and hammer ( putting in a power custom bisley hammer and #5 frame) but no plans for the barrel. If you want it, would happily pass it along for cost of shipping--I'm not going to use it. This is an awesome offer and I am really amazed by it. At the current time I have no clue what route I will end up taking and what will be needed for it. If I knew that I was going to use the barrel you've offered I would gladly take it but I have reservations about taking such a gift without need. If the time comes that I honestly have a need for this barrel and you happen to still have it I would be more than happy to pay you a fair price for it. Nice to know that there are honestly nice people in the world. Thank you. BTW, that sounds like an really cool gun you have planed.
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Post by t5malibuwagon on Nov 12, 2012 20:03:28 GMT -5
Frankenfab, I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't believe what you were telling me, I was more making an observation from the guns that I had to look at. It is very interesting that the 8 shot has the same pivot point and I think this go back to show that you were dead on when you said that these revolvers aren't the space ships that they are sometimes made out to be. Your also a step ahead of me in this, I was thinking "if I only had a working cutaway" but it never even crossed my mind to make one. Heck that would be a neat project in itself. This website will be the end of me yet, lol.
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Post by frankenfab on Nov 13, 2012 1:00:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I meant to say the pawl didn't have a leg on it for freewheeling, not the bolt.
Long day!
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