five shot cylinder conversion new vaquero?

[tupp]

Hello all,
My name is Jake and I have been lurking around this great sight for a while now feeding my addiction until I could afford a new toy. Well the time finally came and I picked up a new vaquero from Davidson's with the .45ACP/.45LC dual cylinder set up. great gun and I am totally loving it! My question to all the very knowledgeable folks around here is, could you produce a five shot cylinder conversion for a small framed .45LC "magnum" capable revolver? How much does the size of the frame itself come into play when loading those tier 1 ruger only load? Could the smaller new vaquero frame handle the 30k plus psi loads if converted to a five shot? Secondly, and please forgive my ignorance if this is a ridiculous question, but if a five shot conversion is performed on a revolver is it possible to still use other 6 shot cylinders without retiming them? Could such a set up be done?
Thanks for the input!
-Jake- ;D

[lloydsmale]

Dont know about the 5 shot 45 pressure limits but the 44 mag built on one is supposidly safe with factory level loads. Once its a 5 shot it will no longer work as a 6 shot.

[bushog]

Hamilton Bowen told me that he felt sure that "Ruger only" loads were safe in a medium frame flat top 5-shot .45 Colt. I'm in the process of finding a Smith barrel to have him do one for me now. Since the introduction of the revolver like yours I'm wondering is it's really justified.

David Clements discouraged me from doing a 5 shot on the medium frame because of heavy recoil. Said I might as well do it on a full frame for practicality, 6 shots vs 5.

There is a great article in Handloader last issue reviewing the medium frame 6 shot .45s. Some of the +P loads are pretty snappy.

[mike454]

Jan 27, 2012 3:16:43 GMT -5 tupp said:

Hello all,
My name is Jake and I have been lurking around this great sight for a while now feeding my addiction until I could afford a new toy. Well the time finally came and I picked up a new vaquero from Davidson's with the .45ACP/.45LC dual cylinder set up. great gun and I am totally loving it! My question to all the very knowledgeable folks around here is, could you produce a five shot cylinder conversion for a small framed .45LC "magnum" capable revolver? How much does the size of the frame itself come into play when loading those tier 1 ruger only load? Could the smaller new vaquero frame handle the 30k plus psi loads if converted to a five shot? Secondly, and please forgive my ignorance if this is a ridiculous question, but if a five shot conversion is performed on a revolver is it possible to still use other 6 shot cylinders without retiming them? Could such a set up be done?
Thanks for the input!
-Jake- ;D

If you add a five shot cylinder to a mid frame gun the gun will end up weighing about the same as a full size six shot gun, or perhaps an ounce less, and have similar ballistic potential. If you want to do it just because, more power to you. If your looking for a lightweight powerhouse, that's not the way to get there.

[bgrooster1]

This is good info as I have wanted to know the strength of the new Vaquero.I thought I had at one time read that it was not made for any loads above standard .45 loads. Good to know it can do the +p loads,not that it would be needed.Just saying

[mike454]

Jan 28, 2012 12:25:36 GMT -5 bgrooster1 said:

This is good info as I have wanted to know the strength of the new Vaquero.I thought I had at one time read that it was not made for any loads above standard .45 loads. Good to know it can do the +p loads,not that it would be needed.Just saying

The midframe guns with six shot cylinder are NOT suitable for +p ruger only 45 colt loads that run at 32000 cup

[bushog]

Mike is right..See Handloader Issue #275 - December, 2011 for 23,000 PSI Colt loads.

They're talking about max loads for the mid-frame guns. Still pretty impressive.

[bgrooster1]

Thanks for the clarification.

[tupp]

I confess after asking this question I realized some of the downfalls of a five shot conversion on a mid-frame gun. mike454, what are some good alternatives if I was looking for a lightweight powerhouse SA revolver?
Jake

[zac0419]

You could get a regular Blackhawk in 45 Colt. The regular Blackhawk can be had for less than $450 and a barrel at 4 5/8 I think weighs less than your Vaquero (barely) and at 5 1/2 weighs a oz or two more. The Bisley 45's weigh about 4-6 oz more but help with recoil. That can also be had for around $500 (guy on the rugerforum might have some, they were $479 delivered I think).

If you really want to spend some money get you a Freedom Arms 97 in 45 Colt. It'll cost you at least $1400, that's if your patient and lucky, but you will own the finest production SA money can buy.

I don't know the BFR's.

Hope this helps, I went down the path of thinking about converting a Medium 45 to 5 shot but it was cheaper, and I have no regrets, to just get the Freedom 97 and be done with it.

[mike454]

Zac is right about the FA 97. The gun is Colt SAA size and weight but will take ruger pressure loads. You can't use Ruger data becayse of the 97s shorter cylinder and finding bullets if you don't cast might be a bit of a problem. I use 250 grain bullets in mine so am not sure. Brian Pearce has published some data for this gun in 45 colt with 300 grain bullets at 1200. The grip frame handles recoil well for me. My 97 weighs 37.25 oz with a 5.5 inch barrel. I think the full size blue 45 colt blackhawk is 38-39 oz and has aluminum gripframe. the full size stainless blackhawk is 43.5 oz due to steel gripframe. both these guns will obviously take the 32,000 full size ruger only loads.
I,m not really fond of the heavier loads with the standard blackhawk gripframe, but I know others who aren't bothered by them. Here are a list of some revolver weights. I'm sure others have some different ideas.
45 colt
gun Barrel oz
Colt SAA 4.75" 36.5
Colt SAA 5.5" 37.75
Colt nf 4.75" 37
usfa saa 4.75" 37.25
usfa saa 7.5" 40.5
Usfa flattop 5.5" 39
ruger bisley 5.5" 45.5
ruger blkhwk ss 4.625" 43.5
ruger bis vaq 4.625" 43.5
ruger bis vaq 5.5" 44.75
ruger bis vaq 7.5" 46
ruger redhawk 7.5" 52.75
Colt anaconda 6" 50
S&W mtn gun 4" 38.25
Freedom arms 83 6" 50
Freedom Arms 97 5.5" 37.25
S&W 625-5 full 5" 43.75
underlug barrel

These four were weighed by Boxhead
45 Colt built on an OM 357 with aluminum grip frame and target length aluminum ERH - 35 oz
4 5/8" 44 Special built on an OM Flattop 357 with aluminum grip frame and steel ERH - 35 oz
4 5/8" 44 Special built on an OM 357 with drift adjustable rear sight, steel grip frame and steel ERH - 40 oz
4 5/8" 41 Special built on an OM Single Six with aluminum grip frame and steel ERH - 30 oz

[temmi]

Is there much value in converting a New Blackhawk to a 5 shot non-fluted cylinder?
I have one and I am getting a Bisley in 45 Colt.

So what is the main gain?

Are there Published loads for that setup?

Thanks


Snake

[dmize]

As long as its a standard large frame,not a new flat top. The 5 shot unfluted cylinder will allow you to use even highr pressure loads,can get pretty close to 454 power, AND recoil.
This new and old stuff is getting a bit confusing.

[bigbores]

Jan 31, 2012 16:41:00 GMT -5 temmi said:

Is there much value in converting a New Blackhawk to a 5 shot non-fluted cylinder?
I have one and I am getting a Bisley in 45 Colt.

So what is the main gain?

Are there Published loads for that setup?

Thanks


Snake

Yes, no and maybe,
The new Blackhawk is a large frame ruger so it will take ruger only loads, so there's really only 100-200 FPS to be gained in a 5shot 45colt, but if you step up to a 5 shot cylinder you can also go bigger like 500Linebaugh bigger!
I like 5shot cylinders even for top end ruger only 45colt loads, I just fill safer with the thicker cylinder walls.