caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,040
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Post by caryc on Oct 22, 2011 17:43:22 GMT -5
Hey Lee, have you been watching American Guns? The gun shop machined out a copy of an old knuckle duster for a customer.
While machining out the cylinder the guy broke two tools and damaged two cylinders beyond repair. He said that this was $500 per each screwed up cylinder.
It was a small .22 cal cylinder. I know you've made cylinders. What would you value the time and material on that cylinder if you were making it? He also said that the more you drill or work stainless, the harder it gets. Is that true.
If there is some reason you'd rather not answer these questions I'll respect that.
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Post by bigboredad on Oct 24, 2011 20:07:37 GMT -5
I personally know Rich Wyatt and I wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw him. In the promo he also claimed to be one of the few guys left that can make a gun out of a block of steel. As you see on the show he does know how to grind for about 15seconds. That is as much that I believe he can really do
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Post by jayhawker on Oct 24, 2011 23:26:27 GMT -5
Last episode he built a custom Cowboy Fast Draw SA for $10,000. The wife displayed a box stock Colt SAA and said it was a $15000. gun and chewed him out for the $5000 loss. They used CFD and SASS interchangeably, and they are totally different games. The show stinks.
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Post by vonfatman on Oct 24, 2011 23:51:22 GMT -5
I can't stomach the show either and I don't know anyone. It's just "drama" B.S. thrown in around some so-called gun experts.
But I also don't like the "Top Shots" show either....another so-called reality show....lots of B.S. IMHO.
Bob
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Post by subsonic on Oct 25, 2011 5:31:15 GMT -5
I just watch it for the daughter. I assume she's 21 since she's carrying that 1911...lol
So far, I think the son is the only one with a clue...
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Oct 25, 2011 5:50:46 GMT -5
All reality TV is BS all of it!
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Lil Dudey
.327 Meteor
I'm out there watching you!
Posts: 639
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Post by Lil Dudey on Oct 25, 2011 7:00:36 GMT -5
All reality TV is BS all of it! I totally agree with you! Sons of Guns is the worse one to me. |
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Post by bigbores on Oct 25, 2011 7:41:02 GMT -5
All reality TV is BS all of it! I agree, reality TV is crap, cheap to produce and for me, not worth watching. |
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 25, 2011 7:55:26 GMT -5
I haven't wasted my time with that show, but my dad got a laugh or two out of it (hell, I don't even have cable; that should tell you what I think of modern TV). Anyways, the $500 in material cost is a joke. Our 17-4 PH stainless cylinders run $6 - $7 in steel.....4140 and 416 stainless are even less expensive when we buy in bulk. And I'd love to compare their $15K SAA to a USFA that costs 1/15 the price. -Lee www.singleactions.com |
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Post by subsonic on Oct 25, 2011 8:44:46 GMT -5
Funny that "reality TV" is the most fake. If it wasn't, it would be called a "documentary".
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mtnbkr
.30 Stingray
Posts: 294
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Post by mtnbkr on Oct 25, 2011 10:25:42 GMT -5
The shows aren't particularly good, but it is kind of cool that we have multiple gun-friendly shows on TV right now.
If you factored in the cost of the machinist's time, the cost of the broken tools, and the cost of the cylinder material, would you come up with $500? What would the retail cost of a finished cylinder be? Maybe that's where he's getting his $500 figure.
Chris
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Post by cubdriver451 on Oct 25, 2011 11:14:15 GMT -5
Chris,
I know you were directing the question to Lee, but I will throw my opinion out there as a machinist as well. The simple answer is "No, a cylinder is not worth $500, when accounting for time and materials."
While I have never made a cylinder from scratch, I have blueprinted one for the purpose of making it. Then I discovered that Borchardt Rifle company sells cylinders for $160 dealer price. I am sure that Borchardt is most likely using CNC equipment which reduces the cost of the finished product, especially when mass producing, but even a one off, made using hand crank machines is not terribly complex and time consuming. If I had to guess, I would estimate less than three hours of work time coupled with maybe an hours worth of design time if the machinist had not done one before.
I have not seen the show or the episode you are referencing, but I would venture the guess that if the machinist broke two tools in the same way, doing the same work, he may not be a very good machinist. The only tool I can imagine breaking that wold cause the ruination of the project would be a reamer used for either the chambers or the through hole for the base pin. Breaking a reamer usually results from one of a few causes; pilot hole too small, tool speed or feed rate too fast or not enough lube/coolant.
Probably the most technical challenging part of making a cylinder would be indexing the bolt stops to the ratchet correctly. Not exactly rocket science...once the indexing is known, it is a simple matter to make both the ratchet teeth and bolt stops using a divider head for holding and positioning the cylinder. Most any machine shop that is reasonably well equipped, would have such tooling.
Justin
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caryc
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,040
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Post by caryc on Oct 25, 2011 11:21:55 GMT -5
Last episode he built a custom Cowboy Fast Draw SA for $10,000. The wife displayed a box stock Colt SAA and said it was a $15000. gun and chewed him out for the $5000 loss. They used CFD and SASS interchangeably, and they are totally different games. The show stinks. I wondered about that myself. That Colt SAA looked like a stock gun. What made it a $15K gun? I'm still wondering why he had to make that cylinder frame for that preacher gun. They only made the frame and the hammer. The rest of the gun was a "bag 0' parts". Why could he not have used a stock Ruger cylinder frame? What made his machined out frame so much better? There are a heck of a lot of Rugers used in fast draw and cowboy shooting and I have never heard of a cylinder frame falling apart. To me, that just looked totally unnecessary. Just a lot of time and money spent machining something that was not needed. We all know who the top smiths are, their names are used a lot on the gun forums. How many times have you heard of one of them machining out a complete cylinder frame for a custom gun? It's just totally not necessary. They use their talents on the rest of the gun where it counts. |
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Post by avidreader on Oct 25, 2011 11:43:53 GMT -5
 I Heard Hamilton Bowen get's his frames from USFA? if you're making a Colt SAA style gun why not go that route?
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mtnbkr
.30 Stingray
Posts: 294
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Post by mtnbkr on Oct 25, 2011 12:34:43 GMT -5
cubdriver451,
Thanks. I agree, based on what I saw and my rudimentary knowledge of machining, I don't think the guy was particularly good. IIRC, he broke at least one bit cutting bolt notches and another drilling the chambers.
Chris
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I Heard Hamilton Bowen get's his frames from USFA? if you're making a Colt SAA style gun why not go that route?