My First Squib Load?

[pbcaster45]

I was shooting my Shiloh Sharps 45-70 at the range today and had what I guess is a squib load (maybe a hangfire?) I was shooting a Sierra 300 gr. JHP over 36 grains of IMR-4198 and I noticed a couple of rounds had a kind of odd delay between hammer fall and the rounds going off. I'd only shot four rounds when the fifth went kind of "puff" with a stinky smell. At first I thought I'd forgotten to load another round so I lowered the lever and extracted the case. It had a good hammer hit but the powder did not ignite and was stuck in a single mass near the mouth of the case. I looked down the barrel and the bullet was stuck right in the throat. At first I thought maybe it was a bad primer but I've never had problems with CCI-200s before. Then I realized I'd been loading the rifle in a different way than I usually do. Normally I put the butt of the stock on my thigh and extract the spent round and reload with the muzzle pointed up. Well, I haven't shot the Sharps in a couple of years and I was loading my rounds with the gun level and on the bags. I think the powder was near the base of the bullet and therefore not getting a good spark from the primer. Instead of pulling the remaining rounds I'm going to give them another try with the rifle loaded muzzle up. What do you guys think? Anybody had this happen before? I've never had this happen with cast bullet - but I usually use dacron or shot buffer to fill in the empty space between the powder and bullet. I don't like using fillers with jacketed bullets.

Nope, the gun is fine - just took a few taps with a cleaning rod to get the bullet out.

[subsonic]

Check the primer pockets for a piece of media from your tumbler. Will screw things up nice. Also check the other ammo for good case neck tension. Is the brass worn out? Did you size them all? A loose case neck might cause this too. The bullet gets knocked out of the case by the primer before the powdr is lit and with no pressure it just smolders. A bullet seated into or against the lands will generate decent pressure even with poor neck tension, but a short bullet in a long throat with light neck tension can move and prevent the powdr from burning.

[Cannon]

In my limited experience, 4198 doesn't work well at lower loading densities. Several years ago, I loaded some 458's with 4198 and 350 grain bullets. The load was straight out of the Hornady book, but I experienced hangfires, and a velocity spread of better than 300 fps. Fortunately, all my bullets cleared the barrel.

I'm going to give them another try with the rifle loaded muzzle up. What do you guys think?

I'm willing to bet your hangfires will go away.

[pbcaster45]

Here's a picture of the bullet. I really think I'm on the right track, almost positive that powder at the front of the case was the cause.



I'm sure glad it didn't get stuck further down the barrel - would have been an SOB to get out!

[Lee Martin]

I've never used H4198, but that sounds like a bad primer to me. Have you ever worked with 5744 or H4895 in 45-70? All of mine love those powders.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

[pbcaster45]

Lee,

I used IMR-4198 because I just ran out of 5744! I've tried H4895 in my 38-55 but not the 45-70. A slower powder like H4895 should work great with some shot buffer. I've used IMR-4198 with shot buffer (got ES & SD readings similar to blackpowder match loads) but I think it might be a bit too fast. I'll have to post those chrongraph results...

[pbcaster45]

Actually, it was SR-4759 which I think is too fast for use with shot buffer - I think H-4895 would be a better choice. I can't recommend this load because it's not something that's been pressure tested. But granulated shot buffer does cut down the ES and SD readings. One of these days I'm going to work with it some more - not now, too close to hunting season!

Gun: 30 inch heavy barrel Shiloh Sharps 45-70
Bullet: Meister 405 gr. RNFP (3 lube grooves/.458)
Powder: SR4759 23.0 grs. + onionskin over powder wad + 12 grs. Ballistic Products Original Shot Buffer
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester
LOAL: 2.595
Shot #
10 1436.11 fps
09 1439.35 fps
08 1434.06 fps
07 1431.18 fps
06 1451.26 fps
05 1430.34 fps
04 1428.65 fps
03 1421.43 fps
02 1434.40 fps
01 1444.50 fps

Avg. Velocity: 1435.12 fps
Spread: 29.83 fps
SD: 8.42

[Hobie]

Sept 7, 2011 23:05:55 GMT -5 Cannon said:

In my limited experience, 4198 doesn't work well at lower loading densities. Several years ago, I loaded some 458's with 4198 and 350 grain bullets. The load was straight out of the Hornady book, but I experienced hangfires, and a velocity spread of better than 300 fps. Fortunately, all my bullets cleared the barrel.

I'm going to give them another try with the rifle loaded muzzle up. What do you guys think?

I'm willing to bet your hangfires will go away.

I experienced squibs with H4198 in my .45-75 WCF 1876 SRC repro. I changed to mag primers and upped the charge slightly and the problem went away. While 4198 has long been recommended to duplicate BP pressures and velocities I think one almost has to load it "just so". I know that Ross Seyfried used a filler to keep the powder against the primer. I personally don't like fillers so I don't use them.

[wickerbill]

4198 has to be kept agaist the primer for good ignition. It really doesn't matter what smokeless powders I use(5744 and 2400), I always use daycron wads to keep the powder down.
Bill
PS:You have a lovely rifle.

[Markbo]

In fact, we need much more and closer up pictures! ;D

[pbcaster45]

Okay, I'll take some pictures when I get a chance - I can take a hint!