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Post by maxcactus on Jun 30, 2011 0:57:42 GMT -5
I'm a metallic cartridge guy. I won't claim to know nearly as much about handguns and long-guns as most of you here, but I know a fair bit. When it comes to scatter guns though, I'm a complete ignoramus. I have basic general knowledge but they're far too much like voodoo for me.
My son and I are on a quest for a security shotgun or two and as with most other things, there's no shortage of options. I'm drawn to some of the security shotguns with ghost ring rear/ramp front sights. I do understand that in general, sights are intended for longer range shooting and/or shooting with slugs, but are there any real drawbacks to them otherwise? Single front beads just seem incredibly coarse and imprecise to me, albeit fast. I also see some now with picatinny rails - I'm assuming for a red dot sight.
Am I allowing the marketing monkeys to sell me stuff I really don't need and might actually hinder the handling & function of a good security shotgun?
Can you share your thoughts on a single bead vs. front & rear sights?
Thank you.
Max.
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alinct
.30 Stingray
Posts: 100 
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Post by alinct on Jun 30, 2011 8:44:43 GMT -5
I have an old 1958 Wingmaster with a smoothbore deer barrel (rifle sights) and a long trap barrel (bead sight). I think that if you were just shooting slugs, sights would be best. If it were just regular shot, a bead would probably be better. I am much more comfortable with a bead.
I think that if you did go with a bead sight and practiced a bit shooting some clays, you'd pick up on pointing pretty quick. Besides, it be a great reason for father and son to go out shooting.
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Post by serialsolver on Jun 30, 2011 8:50:11 GMT -5
Max, If your looking for a self defense weapon and the shotgun will be used only for close ranges say 25 yards and in I say go with a bead only. If you want to shoot slugs out to the maximum range then I would go with ghost rings. Ghost rings are still fast for close work and still precise for longer distances. Red dots will work close and far, if you are used to using the red dot.
My close range shotguns are a Remington 870 with a fiber optic bead at the end of a 18 inch barrel and Winchester 97 with a big brass bead at the end of a short barrel. My tactical shotgun is a Remington 1187 with ghost sights and an extended mag. The 1187 does have a short rail for a small light. All in 12 ga. The defensive shotgun does not have to be a 12 bore. A 20 ga. at short range will still “get er done”.
At close range my 100 year old Winchester 97 is just as effective down range as my new Remington 1187. Don’t over think the defensive shotgun. What worked in 1880 will still work today.
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Post by steveb on Jul 5, 2011 9:10:54 GMT -5
For across the room, or down the hallway shooting, no sights or choke is needed. Shoot both eyes open and on the target. An afternoon with some cheap target loads(promotional loads) and some cardboard silhouete targets and you'll see. Don't try to turn the shotgun into another rifle. I spent two days with a guy that trains fed prison tactical teams and is on one. His personal on the job shotgun is an 870. The Saiga is gaining acceptance and has firepower that can't be beat. steve b
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Post by steveb on Jul 5, 2011 9:36:18 GMT -5
You needn't get fancy either. I'm as birdhunter. Most of my shotguns are 20 or 16ga.. My only 12ga is a Mossberg 500 thats camo'ed for turkey/waterfowl use. With the shortest barrel , a decent choice to repell boarders. steve b
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robl
.375 Atomic
These were the good ole days!
Posts: 1,415
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Post by robl on Jul 5, 2011 10:49:55 GMT -5
have him speak with Hans Vang of Vang Comp Systems if he wants the best available in defensive shotguns.
928-636-1538
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Post by flyfisher66048 on Aug 6, 2011 16:05:26 GMT -5
I agree with the previous posts, don't make it too hard.
Ammo - I only keep two types of loads for self defense: 00 buck and slugs. I load the shotguns with 00 buck and keep slugs in the butt cuff. Slugs would be used if i needed to shoot through cover, or needed more accurate shot placement. I would not go smaller than number 4 buck for self defense. Bird shot does not have sufficient penetration for self defense use against humans.
Self defense situations are generally close range situations. So, a cylinder bore shotgun with a single gold bead is good for most situations. However, I'm not satisfied with a self defense gun that only handles "most" situations. I use a shotgun with ghost ring sights, the front post has tritium insert. Some folks say you can't shoot the ghost ring sights as fast as beads. I disagree. Just go shoot some skeet with your self defense shotgun, you'll get just as fast. You might get some funny looks though.
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Post by steveb on Aug 7, 2011 8:46:05 GMT -5
There is one reason why shotguns may not automatically be the best home defense weapon. It takes two hands to operate. There are two scenarios where this is true. Children, if you have litte ones that will need to be "herded" all to one room, you'll need a free hand. This should be job for significant other, but not always. you'll have to work out your own plan. The second is tight quarters. In general, my home is big and airy, except for the hallway that all the bedrooms/office/b-room all come off. When I step outta the master b-room door, I'm within one-step reach of 3 other doorways. In this case, for me, a job for a handgun. YMMV. Took a course on home invasion defense. Wife and I learned to fight as a team, within our home. This is what I learned among much else. We used plywood, barrels, tarps, lawn furniture to mock up each couples home and used rest of class for BG's. Used airsoft gear for realism, also used cardboard targets and live fire to find and figure angles. Leanr what cover vs concealment,etc.. steve b
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Post by steveb on Aug 12, 2011 12:30:46 GMT -5
Its nice to debate about theory, fun and all. You can haul expensive toys to the "range" and kill forests worth of cardboard that ain't moving, from your preferred "tactical stance". You have not learned to fight. Oh bother, to qoute Eyore. steve b
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Post by Markbo on Aug 14, 2011 12:08:30 GMT -5
I went through all that quite a while back. Hans Vang is THE man for customization of shotguns, but frankly I don't know that all his fine work is needed. After much conversation with him I chose to just make up my own.
A short barreled pump shotgun-I went with a Mossberg 500
A light source-I went with a Surefire forearm
Visible sights. There I went simple. For inside-the-house distance (hey if they leave, they are gone!) I chose a HiViz fiber optic.
Easy to install, visible in all light. My house is lit up by street lights on 2 sides, so even in complete darkness there is some ambient light that the HiViz shows up in. If I hit that Surefire there is a big bright green dot.
Works for me.
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