Anyone have the Uberti El Patron CMS?

[pentz]

First post time here, so here goes...long-time (45 yr) DA and Auto shooter, have not had a SA in decades. I'm looking for a traditional (hammer-mounted FP) short-barreled SA for fun and occasional hiking. I've never had the traditional SA so now that is my choice. Maybe a Ruger later. I want it in 45 Colt to keep my Smith 625 and Colt NS company.

Before taking the high-priced plunge I was looking at the Taylor Running Iron until the Uberti El Patron CMS popped up. Anyone have one? Advice welcomed.
Pentz

[cubdriver451]

Hey Pentz,

I have 4 5/8"El Patron and have been very happy with it. The Fit and finish is much better than on any of my Rugers. The lock up is tight, the cylinder throats are sized correctly, and the trigger is a clean, crisp, 3lbs. Oh yea, it shoots great too!

My only complaint is that Uberti Checkers the grip panels, and it is a real shame, because the wood grips have fantastic color and lots of figure. The checkering hides this a bit.

All in all, I would buy another one without question!

Justin

[dmize]

Dont have an El Patron, BUT I have a Cattleman and a Schofield. Since I have about 20 Rugers it really hurts me to think about how tight the Ubertis lock up and the way their triggers feel.
I havent been here very long but WELCOME to a great group of guys!!!!

[jimmarch]

The El Patron is Uberti's highest finish level gun...the best they can make. When they supply that finish level to Taylor's, it's called either the Smokewagon or the Running Iron depending on options. When Cimarron sells that level finish, it's called the "Evil Roy" - and in Cimarron's case involves additional hand-tuning stateside. There may be other such floating around...wouldn't surprise me if Navy Arms had their variant, fr'instance.

The El Patron and it's various incarnations use American-source springs, so that alone is a decent little upgrade.

In my view, the single best possible source of a top-end Uberti is to get a Taylor's as modified by Longhunter:

www.longhunt.com/taylor/smokewagon.htm

www.longhunt.com/taylor/runniniron.htm

Longhunter is both a gunsmith and dealer, and sells brand new guns he's "pre-tuned". For the level of upgrade, the prices are extremely reasonable, even moreso when you factor in not having to ship the gun out to a gunsmith and pay shipping back.

The main difference between the Running Iron and the Smokewagon is the hammer reach. Lower-slung hammers have recently been declared legal in SASS so we're seeing more brand new guns set up that way. IF you shoot one-handed a lot or when shooting two-handed do your cocking with the strong hand and not the off hand, you'll likely appreciate the lower-slung hammer unless you've got very big hands.

In the Rugers a lot of people take the ones that are similar in size to a Colt SAA ("New Vaquero" or the mid-frame Blackhawks) and retrofit SuperBlackhawk lower-slung hammers. Ruger is now doing this from the factory with the "SASS special" NewVaqs and the Montado. The Running Iron basically clones that sort of hammer position but is otherwise a traditional action; it's also available with a shorter barrel.

Anyways. The ONLY Uberti that will touch a Longhunter-tuned Taylor's is the Cimarron Evil Roy and it's a lot more money...I'd personally much rather deal with Longhunter.

[pentz]

Thanks all for the advice. Alot to ponder. I was also looking very hard at the USFA Double Eagle, but at twice the price of the Running Iron or El Patron CMS I'm opting for the less expensive for now. I definitely want a low or bird's head hammer, though.

[jimmarch]

The USFA Rodeo is the same gun as the high-dollar-finish variants like the Double Eagle, but with a "cheaper paint job". Metallurgy and machining quality on the USFAs (including the Rodeo stomp the Italians into the dirt and beat Ruger by at least a little bit. The USFA high-bucks guns have real color case finishes done by Doug Turnbull and that just about doubles the cost. Cosmetically, nothing else except a Colt can touch the USFAs and USFA is still slightly in the lead over Colt. Only fractionally though. Colt's significant upgrades from where they were eight+ years ago is almost certainly because of the pressure USFA put on them - for a while, a real Colt SAA didn't even come close to a USFA but the gap has narrowed - a LOT.

And not because USFA quality dropped.

Anyways. Look, the Ruger NewVaq is still a better gun than anything Italian. Traditional action it's not! But the New Vaquero released in 2004 is at least the same size/heft/feel as the Italian SAA clones or a real Colt, or at the very least a hell of a lot closer than the oversize "original Vaqueros" built on a 44Magnum-class frame. The NewVaq trigger feel has significantly caught up and is easy to home-brew improve.

My Ruger NewVaq357 (bought new in 2005, shot and carried a LOT) has a spring job and retrofitted SBH hammer I installed myself. Several people who've shot it have called that trigger the best SA trigger they've personally felt. Now, they're not major-grade wheelgunners so there's no way I'd put it up against a trigger by Bowen, Stroh or any of the real gunsmiths! But it's damned good, plenty for my needs, and the Ruger loading system is fundamentally safer and faster than the traditional action.

And no Italian gun is going to match a Ruger for basic fit'n'finish or out-of-the-box accuracy unless it's tuned to a fare-thee-well...possibly an Evil Roy or something Longhunter got ahold of, I dunno.

But even Longhunter can't turn Uberti metallurgy into Ruger metal.

The Rugers are also FAR easier to work on for the homebrew gunsmith than the traditional actions.

[capntex]

FWIW, we're shipping my wife's El Patron (not CMS model) back today for warranty repairs.

After years of auto shooting she wanted a SAA and chose the El Patron model for Mother's Day. She got the .45 LC version (availability) and is no longer intimidated by the CAS loads; absolutely loves the gun; it's a straight-shooter and very consistent.

However, after only 114 CAS rounds, the hammer lost its' 4-clicks; won't remain cocked in any position.

I belatedly realized my gunsmithing skills are pretty much limited to automatics; the SAA's schematic looks pretty involved to me. We'll use Stoeger/Uberti's warranty services and hope for the best.

Stoeger says the gun will be out of our hands for a month. Shame.

[willys46cj2a]

I have the Uberti El Patron in .357 and 5.5 in. barrel, love it fit and finish excellent, would also have preferred the grips not be checkered. Question to you! My cylinder is not numbered as Uberti's ads all say. Seriel numbers all match and weapon was bought new this spring from a dealer who dealt with Stoeger. I am sure one of you has the answer.

[pentz]

After much agonizing, I called up Alex Hamilton at Ten-Ring and ordered a USFA Storekeeper in 45 Colt. I figured that I might as well "go for it", and by talking with Alex (a heckuva nice guy!) he was able to handle the piece and assure me it had a great action, tight b/c gap and that the CCH hammer did not rub on the frame. What the heck - do it right the first time! Now I have to wait for it to arrive, my dealer is not open until Wednesday. Will report in when it arrives.