Cast bullets... hopefully not heresy...

[pka45]

Hi all,

I love reloading and shooting my single actions and lever guns, mostly 45 Colts. Just this year I've gotten into hunting with them, specifically my 4 5/8" New Vaquero. I shot 3 small Alabama deer with a 255 Keith running around 1k this year, and have a few questions: All hits were nearly perfect - front third/bottom half of the body, low and tight. Deer ran from 75-125 yards and all died quickly, but only one left a followable blood trail (and as a bowhunter primarily, I'm pretty good at that). One other that left very sparse blood I was able to find, but the third deer didn't leave one speck of evidence that it was hit, so I thought I missed, only to find it 3 days later hit tight behind the shoulder with an exit breaking the offside shoulder.

This experience tells me I need to use jacketed bullets to hopefully expand and leave more blood behind - please tell me I'm wrong! I tried with each shot to break the deer down and go thru a shoulder, but only succeeded with the one that I never found. Any ideas?

Thanks for the help,

Pete

[njsbd]

I use 255 swc-k-gc most of the time! Trying LFN orWFN will leave a larger wound channel thus a defining blood trail. caring for your concern.

[dmize]

Wadeing into a possible hornets nest here but......
I use Hornady XTPs for hunting with my 44 and 45,I live in Central Missouri,and unlike the rest of the country our deer arent evolving into armor plated beasts. We dont have elk,bison or t-rexes running around and I dont see the need for 26 feet of penetration.
I DO UNDERSTAND the need for certain situations that require heavy cast bullets, but like you I am a bow hunter I always shoot right behind the shoulder and have yet to loose a deer.
When Keith and others started with the hard cast bullets the jacketed bullets at the time were very poor performers,but with the design of the XTPs and the velocity range at they are DESIGNED to work at,i think they are just the ticket,and BTW I have yet to recover one from an animal.

[taffin]

THE KEY WORD HERE IS "SMALL"; I HAVE TAKEN 24 TEXAS WHITETAILS WITH ONE SHOT EACH USING THE HORNADY 240 XTP AS LOADED BY BLACK HILLS. 22 DROPPED IN THEIR TRACKS, ONE WENT 30 YARDS, AND THE ONE EXCEPTION WENT ABOUT 300 YARDS. FOR ANYTHING UNDER 200 POUNDS I GO WITH THE JHP; LARGER CRITTERS I CHOOSE HARD CAST BULLETS.

[COR]

I will admit that had I not gotten into casting and the sheer satisfaction of harvesting an animal with my own cast bullet...I'd probably still be using a 180gr, 200gr or 240gr HP/SP because they work really well and the deer tended to drop quickly, maybe due to the shock (I guess) of an HP from a 44Mag at higher velocity?? It could just be the spot I hit them and all deer are different about giving up the ghost but the hard cast tend to run about 25- 45 yds and pile up (heart lung area).

Shot two does this year with a 44 spl 250K at about 900fps. Both less than 40yds, through and through on each of them. Our largest deer are seldom over 175lbs here in Pa. I consider a 100lb does about perfect for eating and these two were just about that size. Just some of my experiences. less meat damage with the cast bullet but not a deal breaker. To each his own but I have to agree about deer sized game and jacketed bullets but I like my own cast so I compromise a bit.

[derekr]

I suspect that the results with the cast might be different if the alloy was softer, or the velocity higher. I wonder how hard you could push a dead soft cast with a gas check?

[2 Dogs]

I am in the process of switching over to both cast and jacketed HPs for my sixgun hunting ammo!

[bluecow]

i use 240 gr cast in my 44 at just shy of 1200 for everything, tin cans to deer, no complaints.

[dmize]

I can assure you that a 240 XTP at about 1,200fps leaves a impressive exit wound,and 250 from a 454 at full throttle leaves a MASSIVE hole, so much so that the only shots I take are broadside thru the ribs only,definately want to stay out of the shoulders.

[mworkmansr]

I agree with derekr about the difference the alloy can make. When I started out with cast bullets in the 44 Special with an N-frame Smith 1950, hard cast bullets were the rage. Thirty years later, I got into black powder cartridge rifles. Of course, for a lot of things, I shoot smokeless in them. Anyway, plain base soft cast 25 to 1 lead/tin can be driven much faster than a 44 Special 250 gr. cast bullet without leading. Two things make a big difference: lube (I use SPG) and matching bullet diameter to cylinder throat. Then, your bullets will expand nicely and leave a good blood trail.

Mike

[rawly]

+1 what Mr. Taffin said!
Rawly

[jwp475]

Feb 3, 2011 12:32:26 GMT -5 pka45 said:

Hi all,

I love reloading and shooting my single actions and lever guns, mostly 45 Colts. Just this year I've gotten into hunting with them, specifically my 4 5/8" New Vaquero. I shot 3 small Alabama deer with a 255 Keith running around 1k this year, and have a few questions: All hits were nearly perfect - front third/bottom half of the body, low and tight. Deer ran from 75-125 yards and all died quickly, but only one left a followable blood trail (and as a bowhunter primarily, I'm pretty good at that). One other that left very sparse blood I was able to find, but the third deer didn't leave one speck of evidence that it was hit, so I thought I missed, only to find it 3 days later hit tight behind the shoulder with an exit breaking the offside shoulder.

This experience tells me I need to use jacketed bullets to hopefully expand and leave more blood behind - please tell me I'm wrong! I tried with each shot to break the deer down and go thru a shoulder, but only succeeded with the one that I never found. Any ideas?

Thanks for the help,

Pete

The WFN will give much larger wound channels IME

[zac0419]

I too used a Keith 255 running at about 1000fps. I couldn't find a drop of blood but did know that I hit it good and eventually found my deer. I had originally thought it was a "soft cast" 255 from Buffalo Bore but after checking the brass it was in fact a hardcast 255 from DT. Pretty sure that had something to do with it. I'm not totally ready to give up on the Keith, I think it will work great in a softer alloy, but for now my plan is to switch to a WFN and see if that produces better results.

With that said, the 250 XTP's are really great for the money but if you don't want to give up on the Keith yet play with the alloy and the speed.

[lloydsmale]

dont have any numbers but ive shot quite a few deer bear and pigs with 250 hardcast swcs out of 45 colts 44 specials and 44 mags. All the deer in the 90-150lb range and ive yet to loose one and ive allways had decent blood trails. differnce could be that when i shoot an animal with hard cast i shoot directly on the shoulder rather then behind it. I doubt i loose 2lbs of meat due to bloodshot. Most shoulder hit drop in there tracks or take one leap and pile up. The farthest ive seen one go is about 50 yards so even if they dont leave a blood trail there easy to find as most that do run dont even get out of sight. I shoot shoulder shots even when shooting something like the 500 line if im using cast. Ive seen more meat damage with jacketed bullets shooting behind the shoulder and even the big bores dont tear up much meat with a shoulder shot. I shoot alot of deer every year so i dont worry much about loosing a bit of shoulder meat as its just ground into burger and sausage anyway.

[white eagle]

I agree with the alloy fella's and JWP
I do believe if you try those two things your success with cast
and your outlook will change