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Post by chambeshi on Dec 26, 2013 5:39:42 GMT -5
Hi Lee, I am new to this forum, but having read your posts about building a .425 WR Magnum, I thought I would post my experiences with the rifles and cartridge. First of all, it is a great cartridge. Don't let anyone try to tell you differently. It was one of the first truly modern smokeless powder magnums and was not developed to be cheap or a poor man's cartridge at all. It was developed to be a primary cartridge for the professional Ivory hunter; and it was one of the best. Back when the cartridge was developed, there was much controversy as to the benefits of a rebated rim (there still is) and the prevailing sentiment was that the advantages far outweighed whatever difficulties the design forced on the gunmaker. Issues like lower back thrust against the bolt face while still maintaining high CUP was only one of its advantages. Currently, I have two 425's that are as good to look at as they are to shoot. One was made for me by Westley Richards and is engraved by the Brown Bros. The other was made for me by Mark Silver and is engraved by Robert Swartley. Both function and feed perfectly, whether the rifle is up side down or right side up. Recoil is considerably less than a .458 Win Mag or 416 Rigby producing the same energy. While it is true that during the hey day of the African rifle trade, cheap rifles, especially from the guilds of Europe, were produced that did not function as they should, this was due more to the cheap quality of the rifles than to the design of the 425 cartridge. A cheap rifle is a cheap rifle and should not be compared to those being hand made by some of Englands best. Anyway, I hope I haven't bored you with all this. I am glad to hear of your admiration for the cartridge. If there is any info or contacts I can send your way, let me know. Respectfully Dennis |
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Post by chambeshi on Dec 26, 2013 5:41:50 GMT -5
I found this discuission on Westley Richard's 425 in a wider search. I am interested if anyone had experience with loading lighter or heavier bullets for this caliber?
thanks
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woody
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,116
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Post by woody on Dec 26, 2013 17:28:41 GMT -5
Savage chambered the 425 Express. Basically a 300 Win Mag necked up to 425. I still haven't started this project, but have a nice CZ24 action waiting on the shelf. -Lee www.singleactions.comLee I just read an article about the .425 Express today in a back issue of Rifle Magazine. It was November 2000 issue. It is Ken Waters favorite rifles colum on page 36. If you want a copy of it let me know. His was built on a Mauser action. |
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Post by tangocharlie on Dec 29, 2013 21:25:43 GMT -5
Lee - I believe you have an itch that no amount of discussion will scratch. If the rebated rim problems can be overcome with the stuff they are chambering in the AR platform now, the 425 WR ought to be easy enough. Just promise that you will do a step-by-step thread on the rifle like you and your dad are doing on the benchrest rifle and I'll be happy.
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Post by Lee Martin on Dec 30, 2013 10:06:56 GMT -5
We're going to build one this year. We cut the reamers and dies in 2012 so it's overdue. I've got a 600 Overkill to do first but when we get around to the 425 I'll document the build. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Building carpal tunnel one round at a time" |
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 30, 2013 13:02:39 GMT -5
Lee.... a .600 Overkill?
Sufferin' baglapper!
David Bradshaw
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Post by Seasons44 on Dec 30, 2013 14:03:41 GMT -5
Lee make sure this 600 OK doesn't weigh 8 lbs!
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Post by tangocharlie on Dec 30, 2013 19:00:59 GMT -5
425 WR? 600 OK? You're not looking to adopt a slightly worn out 60 year old, are you?
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 1, 2014 9:50:58 GMT -5
see discussion on 425 Westley Richards here: www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/48448-425-Westley-Richards?highlight=425+westley+richardsInteresting Post by former Actioneer at WR - To Quote Gunny Jim: "I worked for WR ( 12 years ), the .425 is a good round. I only built two rifles in this calibre. For the cartridge to feed effectively in the mauser 98 action, two spring loaded side clips are used to stop the cartridges being pushed out of the mag box by the follower etc. When the bolt is pushed forwards, the clips are pushed outwards allowing the bolt face to feed the round off the follower and into the chamber. It took a lot of time to alter the receiver walls and do the feedwork for this calibre than any other I have ever built. That aside, recoil was moderate. Modern rifle stocks are designed with higher cheek pieces and combs. The old rifles that came into the factory that I fired always kicked like mules because of their old stock measurements. Many of the old rifles had very long barrels - 24/26'', and the muzzle flash was always impressive in low light conditions." |
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 1, 2014 9:55:45 GMT -5
If you know what you're doing, getting them to feed isn't a problem. I've done 6mm-284's on Mausers and they function fine. Granted, the 425 is more rebated but I'm sure I can get it to work. In fact, cycling was never an issue with the original Westley Richards guns. Some of the lesser quality 425's had reliablity problems though. Mathias - other than Woodleighs, do you know of another source of 0.435" bullets? -Lee www.singleactions.comRhino Bullets and also Stewart makes .435 bullets here in S Africa. Also Dzombo and Claw (based in E London). Rhino export to Europe |
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 1, 2014 9:57:59 GMT -5
There is a good writeup in the 1981 Gun Digest by Jack Lott. Explains the feed problems. Does anyone have a PDF copy of this article by the late Jack Lott, Please? Will be extremely useful to us here in Africa many thanks Chambeshi |
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 1, 2014 9:59:52 GMT -5
There is a good writeup in the 1981 Gun Digest by Jack Lott. Explains the feed problems. Does anyone have a PDF copy of this article by the late Jack Lott, Please? Will be extremely useful to us here in Africa many thanks Chambeshi Here is recent one published in Zimbabwe mag FYI |
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 1, 2014 10:11:44 GMT -5
To quote John 'Pondoro' Taylor in his legendary book Big Game and Big Game Rifles [pg 207]: "I have often thought that a battery consisting of an open-sighted double .425 (26-inch barrels) and a 'scope-sighted .425 magazine (25-inch barrel) would take an immense amount of beating for general all-round work amongst dangerous game, and am seriously considering just such a battery when it is possible for me to order a new one."
and Pondoro reiterated his deep affection for the 425 in African Rifles and Cartridges [pg 20]: "I have often thought that a battery consisting of an open-sighted 26"-barreled double .425 and a 25"-barreled aperture-sighted magazine .425 would take an immense amount of beating for general all-round work amongst dangerous game."
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 4, 2014 5:15:20 GMT -5
Attached - is the classic article by Zimbabwe expert Charlie Haley (SA Magnum magazine) that lays shatters a few dogmatic myths about so called problems with the .425 Westley Richards. Only a relatively few rifles gave the 425 a bad reputation. The truth was expanded on more recently by Pierre van der Walt in his excellent encyclopedia 'African Dangerous Game Cartridges'. He repeats the lessons taught us by Charlie with respect to rebated rims. His assessments of the mythology and propoganda under the rebated rim issue also make for interesting reading in his detailed profiles of the .375 Rem UMag, 500 Jeffery and 11.2 x 72 Schuler. In any case, the rim of the 425 WR is only rebated 0.072" [1.83 mm]. The real cause of feeding malfunctions in BA rifles was confined to cheaper weapons [including some Colonial models] that used the wrong follower-plate in the magazine and/or the latter's poor fitting. Similarly the 500J requires careful work to cope with the massive cartridge. As Pierre concludes "Once a gunsmith knows how to achieve reliable feeding with the .500 Jeffery, he can build very reliable rifles. This should make the intelligent sit up and think." No one I have read so far has noted the obvious, in light of how the legendary Leslie Taylor designed the 425 WR for both doubles and bolt actions. The unusual shape of the 425 WR was not only to facilitate cordite loading (this being 1909) but the long sloping shoulder and long neck are especially handy, in fact critical, to rapid reloading of a double rifle. These features save lives in close encounters demanding rapid reloading. This delivered for the first time - in 1909 - large bore bolt action performance in a double. It far surpassed the superb .404 Jeffery (which has we all know is actually a .424 bullet in a .412 bore, which has something to do with why the .404 Jeffery outperforms the .416 Rigby in close encounters in thick jesse. Read Pierre's book on the survival statistics from Zim National Parks records]. It is also common knowledge that Rigby caught up with Westley Richards with its .416 in 1912 but Rigby never built a double .416 rifle until very recently. Although the .375 Flanged also appeared a few years after the .425 , it is no match in sectional density, bullet weight nor Taylor(Pondoro) Knock Out Value. We had to wait for the .500/.416 NE Krieghoff, released in 1991. This is the only large bore in the "lower-400s" category actually designed for a double, which would eventually come close to performance of the .416 Rigby and .425 WR in a bolt action. Yet, the 425 has been built in bespoke doubles since 1909! makes one think.... The .425 WR marginally outperforms the .416 Rigby, and it is far superior - especially in its reliability - than the controversial .458 Winchester Magnum. Its milder recoil is yet another added advantage over all the .416s and the .458. Over a century after its invention, it is interesting to acknowledge where modern propellants powering 5th and 6th generation bullets are going to propel the full potential of the .425 Westley Richards. best to all for 2014 Chambeshi |
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Post by chambeshi on Jan 4, 2014 5:30:38 GMT -5
Attached - a more recent profile of the 425 Westley Richards from 2012 |
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