Some slip hammer questions

[mashaffer]

Fanning is of course really hard on a weapon but my understanding is that slip hammering is far less damaging. As long as you are not slamming the hammer really hard would it be generally OK for occasional use?

I am thinking of the situation where you are put into a situation of using a SA in a SD situation. If you end up having to draw on a perp you probably don't want to cock the hammer while covering the offender. However with the weapon uncocked and finger outside of the trigger guard you are at a significant disadvantage it seems.

It seems like one could keep the hammer down with the trigger pulled in perfect safety as you are not going to get a ND by accidentally bumping something. The hammer requires a deliberate strong pull and release to fire. If a need to fire presents itself all you have to do is pull the hammer back and let it slip to fire. This should allow a faster first shot than cocking, putting the trigger finger inside the trigger guard and then pulling the trigger.

If one were going to use this technique though, one would need to be able to practice it without damaging the weapon.

Any thoughts on this?

mike

[CraigC]

I do it all the time, usually with a Single Six. It's a little tough on the bolt notches but it won't beat it to death like fanning.

[rep1954]

mashaffer get yourself a copy of Ed McGiverns " Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" and read it. Ed use to wire back his triggers for slip shooting.

[Len]

Read Keith's auto biography he references a man by the name of Newman who altered his Colt by tying the trigger back and grinding down the hammer.

[jimmarch]

The Ruger SBH hammer is in my opinion the greatest slip-hammer hammer ever built .

If you do it a lot, consider an over-travel stop like the bolt-in models Wes Fargo sells for Rugers:

cas-town.com/WestFargoGunsmith/parts.html

The one for the NewVaq replaces the keylock mechanism and works with the standard-length mainsprings and struts for those guns. It also works in the 44Spls (all variants) and the 50th 357 and 44mag flattop Blackhawks.

[mashaffer]

Thanks for the help guys.

mike

[jayhawker]

Elmer Keith had a dedicated slip hammer Colt trigger guard with the trigger slot welded closed, as he removed the trigger. Said it was the most reliable of all Colt SAs as there was no sear to break and the trigger half of the bolt and trigger spring was not flexed.
Jayhawker Bob

[peacemaker]

Nov 10, 2010 17:59:55 GMT -5 mashaffer said:

It seems like one could keep the hammer down with the trigger pulled in perfect safety as you are not going to get a ND by accidentally bumping something.

Yes, this. My trigger finger is often in the guard when handling my single action sixguns. You can yank on the trigger until the frost thaws and never get it to fire as long as the hammer isn't cocked. The automatic guys get all disjointed sometimes, but that is because they do have to keep their finger away from their trigger until ready to fire.

I find one-handed slip shooting extremely inaccurate, more so than fanning. Then again, I don't have the special slip hammer. With most standard hammers, you won't have the thumb against the backstrap when it lets loose, and your grip will all be with your fingers- nearly an impossible hold, I find. A slip hammer would allow you to practically have your thumb down around the backstrap as the hammer rolls out from under the web of your thumb.

Your better option with a standard hammer would be two-handed slip shooting. Or, is that what you had in mind?

[CraigC]

Slip-hammering is commonly done by cocking with the weak hand thumb.

[jimmarch]

>>Slip-hammering is commonly done by cocking with the weak hand thumb.<<

For the loads in CAS/SASS, yes, you see that a lot.

Crank up the power level into something with some beef to it and the SASS system of dropping the off-hand cocking thumb back across the grip frame (on top of the strong hand) fails miserably.

Strong-hand cocking is absolutely required once you hit serious power. Certainly by the time you hit healthy 44Mag loads, and in the mid-frames the outer edge of the 357 power spectrum will get you to a point where off-hand cocking the way the SASS players do it will fail.

[peacemaker]

Can I quote a paragraph or two from Elmer Keith, or would that violate copyright?

[CraigC]

Nothing wrong with weak hand cocking, regardless of the recoil level. Obviously with more recoil, the more time there will be between shots but there will definitely be less time than strong thumb cocking.

I don't think there are any legal issues in quoting a book, especially when credit is given. Let `er rip!

[mashaffer]

Yes Peacemaker, two hand is what I had in mind. This would only be used at pretty close range so I think that adequate accuracy should be pretty easy to achieve. Once the first shot is off following shots could be any method that seems appropriate. Strong hand slip would seem to require pretty good agility.

mike

[rep1954]

If anyone has access to Dennis Alders copy of "Colt Single Action from Patersons to Peacemakers" on page 184 is a story and a picture of the gun that was the one that fired the shot that killed Dallas Stoudenmire. It is a snub nose cartridge conversion with no trigger or trigger guard. In fact it looks as though the trigger slot has been filled in. Pretty slick little gun but watch out where you point it while loading and unloading it.

[peacemaker]

Excerpts from "Sixguns- By Keith", by Elmer Keith (bold and underline my emphasis):

"John Newman perfected the slip hammer, a low smooth and shorter hammer spur placed about half way down the back of the hammer and grasped with the base knuckle of the thumb. This slip hammer is slow for the first shot, draw and hit, when used without a trigger, or in comparison to a regular trigger gun, but is faster after the first shot by men trained in its use. It is very fast if used with both hands, one to hold the gun, the other to slip the hammer. Very accurate slip shooting can also be done with the Newman type hammer, but it requires training and when trained for the slip hammer one must unlearn, so to speak, all he has learned of trigger shooting."

(Keep in mind a "slip gun" is one that has been modified for slip shooting only)
"John Newman used the slip gun exclusively. Usually a .45, but he also had some bushed single actions for the .22 caliber. He made as many as five hits with the slip gun on a gallon can tossed up 20 feet before it reached the ground. The slip gun is fast, but not as fast as the double action. It is one of the most reliable of all arms in a gun fight as there is little left in the gun to break or malfunction. If one masters the slip gun, he must forget all he has learned of trigger shooting as it is an entirely different technique. Men trained with the slip hammer become nearly as proficient as shooters using the trigger, either single or double action, but then they cannot do good work with trigger guns."

"Although I was raised on the single action Colt and went through all phases of single action shooting, even to developing my own modification to the John Newman slip hammer; using it exclusively a couple of years with trigger removed, hammer spur lowered and the hole for the trigger welded up solid, I learned and mastered slip shooting and found I could do as good work slow fire, even at distant targets, as with a trigger gun. But I also learned that it ruined me for trigger shooting as the two far different techniques do not combine. However, I substantiated John Newman's claims that the slip gun was a reliable weapon either for defense or game shooting. We could never develop a quick draw and hit with the slip hammer unless it was modified, as by J. E. Berns, with a separate spur at extreme top of the hammer for fast draw work out of the holster. That is for one hand use. Of course the regular S. A. Colt hammer can have the checking removed and by using two hands as our friend Walter Rogers does, the old single action can be drawn with one hand and the hammer slapped with the other to coordinate the action into a rather fast and deadly draw and hit at close range. This is known as fanning. More on this subject in a later chapter."

Well, that's enough for now. My apologies for any typos. I know there are more passages having to do with controlled, aimed slip shots for long distance, but I will have to find and post them some other time.

I believe if one already had his gun out, ready for trouble, a double-handed slip shot with a single action (using the off hand to slip the hammer as Elmer described) would likely be the safest method to use as the hammer need not be cocked beforehand and one wouldn't be as prone to accidentally jerk the trigger in reaction to any surprise which could turn out to be an innocent. Snooping and pooping around a dark house with a cocked hammer is not a good idea, but the trigger could be held to the rear, and the thumb of the off hand on the hammer spur ready to cock the hammer the instant a shot needs to be taken. Today's Colt SAA hammer spur checkering is so weak it hardly needs to be removed for the occasional slip shot in my opinion. Just be darned sure you are holding the trigger firmly to the rear, or a broken trigger sear and/or hammer ledge could result.

Hope this helps.