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Post by bigbores on Nov 3, 2010 1:02:47 GMT -5
With all the talk of comparing Freedom arms to the BFR's and now the Super-Mags, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a model 83 that was pushed a little to hard and bulged a cylinder or blew up?
I know I haven't.
BFR's had problems with there cylinders bulging on there early 500SWs using full power factory 440GR corbon loads, they fixed this with a better heat-treat.
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Nov 3, 2010 5:16:32 GMT -5
No. The whole idea of trying to push any given caliber or gun to excessive overload levels "to see what it can really do" strikes me as idiocy, and has for years. Any 83 in any caliber should last many lifetimes.
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,129
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Post by aciera on Nov 3, 2010 5:27:04 GMT -5
Like Smokey Yunick said about engines, "computers are fine, but you don't know what it will really do till you blow them up."
John Linenaugh had H.P. White THE gold standard, do his 45 loads.
When someone first told me he knew of someone who blew up a 357 NM Blackhawk my eyes prolly bulged out more than the chambers.
I thought, how much of what?
How rude to ruin a good 6 gun!
Look at the variables you have to look at;
Material of cylinder
Quality of alloy
Stress releif
Chamber
Throats
Heat Treat
Chamber to OD of cylinder
OD of cylinder(sort of the same)
Chamber to chamber
Cylinder length
Bullet weight
Bullet alloy
Bullet hardness
Brass volume
Brass alloy
Brass hardness
Primer. size
Primer type, rifle or pistol
Primer type, magnum or not
Primer "heat"
Chamber location
Chamber size
Chamber finish
Cylinder finish
Take the WORST case in EVERY. Case, add powder variables and say: THANK YOU to folks from Phil Sharpe to John Taffin.
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Post by AxeHandle on Nov 3, 2010 7:11:34 GMT -5
 Make me think of "Shooting Anvils" The scene in the movie Sweet Home Alabama where the grandfather was out back shooting anvils was completely over my head until I saw the youtube clip... Made me want to buy some anvils, grab some black powder and go shoot them at Fermin's house... ;D Anyone else remember when one of the gun rags took a FA 454 and tried to blow it up? Should have been in the 80s. Best I remember they ended with a compressed charge of bullseye. The "testers" stood behind a tree and pulled the trigger with a cord. The FA survived with no measurable damage..
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,129
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Post by aciera on Nov 3, 2010 8:07:33 GMT -5
Make me think of "Shooting Anvils" The scene in the movie Sweet Home Alabama where the grandfather was out back shooting anvils was completely over my head until I saw the youtube clip... Made me want to buy some anvils, grab some black powder and go shoot them at Fermin's house... ;D Anyone else remember when one of the gun rags took a FA 454 and tried to blow it up? Should have been in the 80s. Best I remember they ended with a compressed charge of bullseye. The "testers" stood behind a tree and pulled the trigger with a cord. The FA survived with no measurable damage.. Sorry to say that will give folks ideas, VERY BAD ideas. Like me.......... It does remind me of a HOT ROD magazine that took a 318 to see how much nitros it could take.........after a LOT they felt sorry for the beast and gave up. Axe: if it was the 80's I take it it was a 454? The Army, in the 1800s used to try to blow up rifles with several ball and powder charges. They just got PAID for what we have to pay for..... |
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Post by AxeHandle on Nov 3, 2010 9:33:51 GMT -5
IIRC It was a 454.... That was all FA made at that point in time
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Post by bigbores on Nov 3, 2010 11:16:45 GMT -5
Anyone else remember when one of the gun rags took a FA 454 and tried to blow it up? Should have been in the 80s. Best I remember they ended with a compressed charge of bullseye. The "testers" stood behind a tree and pulled the trigger with a cord. The FA survived with no measurable damage.. WOW, I always knew they were strong but that's crazy! Thanks Axe, you answered my question 10 fold, "so strong even a fool would have a hard time blowing one up". |
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,129
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Post by aciera on Nov 3, 2010 12:45:18 GMT -5
Anyone else remember when one of the gun rags took a FA 454 and tried to blow it up? Should have been in the 80s. Best I remember they ended with a compressed charge of bullseye. The "testers" stood behind a tree and pulled the trigger with a cord. The FA survived with no measurable damage.. WOW, I always knew they were strong but that's crazy! Thanks Axe, you answered my question 10 fold, "so strong even a fool would have a hard time blowing one up". However, nothing is foolproof for the properly talented fool..... Someone will now try to prove the gunwriters wrong............. Like someone betting a friend a dollar he can throw his own grandfathers gold watch into the air and shoot it before it hits the ground................What does it prove/ |
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cable
.327 Meteor
Posts: 681
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Post by cable on Nov 3, 2010 13:12:46 GMT -5
With all the talk of comparing Freedom arms to the BFR's and now the Super-Mags, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a model 83 that was pushed a little to hard and bulged a cylinder or blew up? I know I haven't. BFR's had problems with there cylinders bulging on there early 500SWs using full power factory 440GR corbon loads, they fixed this with a better heat-treat. yes, there was somebody out in Nome, back in the 80s, packed enough H110 in there and then was shooting at 20 below zero and blew the cylinder.......was a picture in one of the gunshops here in anchorage, of the results.... i suppose you could blow up one of those 16" guns on a battleship if you tried hard enough. [ sigh ] |
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akray
.30 Stingray
"Alaska is what the Wild West was"
Posts: 388
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Post by akray on Nov 3, 2010 23:21:15 GMT -5
I've read about some guys putting enough H110 in the case that the round had to be crimped twice because the powder exerted enough pressure on the base of the bullet to push it past the first crimp. That sounds like a lot of powder to me. The person then went and shot these loaded rounds with no ill effects.
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,129
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Post by aciera on Nov 3, 2010 23:47:13 GMT -5
I've read about some guys putting enough H110 in the case that the round had to be crimped twice because the powder exerted enough pressure on the base of the bullet to push it past the first crimp. That sounds like a lot of powder to me. The person then went and shot these loaded rounds with no ill effects. Do you remember where you read it? |
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cable
.327 Meteor
Posts: 681
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Post by cable on Nov 3, 2010 23:47:45 GMT -5
I've read about some guys putting enough H110 in the case that the round had to be crimped twice because the powder exerted enough pressure on the base of the bullet to push it past the first crimp. That sounds like a lot of powder to me. The person then went and shot these loaded rounds with no ill effects. i remember reading that some double base powders like H110, actually give higher pressures in severe cold, and that was what put it over the edge.......i once put enough H110 behind a 300 gr freedom arms bullet that the cases stuck pretty badly in my FA83 |
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aciera
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,129
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Post by aciera on Nov 4, 2010 5:14:20 GMT -5
Cable;
Thanks for the info.
When there were fewer powders and no internet, more was written on each powder in places like Handloader, Rifle, and PS.
Was it LilGun FA warned about forcing cone erosion?
Now there is SOOO much written and sometimes twisted electronicly by Gawd knows who, you need a filter.
Thank you Lee !
Failure modes in one alloy for cylinders is a major study. Keeping up on all the powders will wear a body out. A LOT of fun but the stakes are pretty high.
And again, thanks for the info. H110 is a favorite.
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jwp475
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,084
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Post by jwp475 on Nov 4, 2010 8:39:23 GMT -5
With all the talk of comparing Freedom arms to the BFR's and now the Super-Mags, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a model 83 that was pushed a little to hard and bulged a cylinder or blew up? I know I haven't. BFR's had problems with there cylinders bulging on there early 500SWs using full power factory 440GR corbon loads, they fixed this with a better heat-treat. I am unaware of any problems with the BFR cylinders, but I can guarenty you that a 500 BFR will stand more pressure than will a FA 83 in 500 How do I know this? I have a friend that is an Ammo maker and when testing proof loads in various revolver he bulged the cylinder on a FA 83 in 500 WE at signiicantly less pressure than the the BFR could shoot without damage. |
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Post by bigbores on Nov 4, 2010 22:46:24 GMT -5
With all the talk of comparing Freedom arms to the BFR's and now the Super-Mags, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a model 83 that was pushed a little to hard and bulged a cylinder or blew up? I know I haven't. BFR's had problems with there cylinders bulging on there early 500SWs using full power factory 440GR corbon loads, they fixed this with a better heat-treat. I am unaware of any problems with the BFR cylinders, but I can guarenty you that a 500 BFR will stand more pressure than will a FA 83 in 500 How do I know this? I have a friend that is an Ammo maker and when testing proof loads in various revolver he bulged the cylinder on a FA 83 in 500 WE at signiicantly less pressure than the the BFR could shoot without damage. Don,t get me wrong, I love the BFR's, There great gun's. I was told that BFR had problems with there early 500S&Ws by BFR's custom shop when I called them to have my .500S&W BFR's cylinder fluted, I was told to look at the cylinder, if it had a brownish tint then it had the better heat-treat and I could send them my cylinder in for fluting if not they wanted the whole gun to refit a new cylinder to my frame before fluting it. As for The BFR being stronger, well here I will disagree, the BFR's cylinder is thinner then the model 83 and I really find it hard to believe Freedom Arms heat-treat or metal isn't up to BFR's standards. Maybe your friend had a weak one or maybe he damaged it with prove loads, sounds like it wasn't a real apple to apple test, being the 83 was chambered in 500WE and the BFR was in 500JRH, really all he proved was that he could destroy a expensive gun. Again I'm not bashing the BFR, I have 6 of them, there great guns, they all shoot better then I can hold, but lets face the facts, comparing a $1000.00 gun to a $2500.00 one isn't fair. I have 1 BFR that came from there custom shop, its the nicest BFR I own unlike my other BFR's timing is perfect and I love that gun but it isn't as nice as my worst Freedom Arms field grade. |
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Make me think of "Shooting Anvils" The scene in the movie Sweet Home Alabama where the grandfather was out back shooting anvils was completely over my head until I saw the youtube clip... Made me want to buy some anvils, grab some black powder and go shoot them at Fermin's house... ;D 