Colt SAA information?

[lar4570]

Hi everybody.
A younger friend of mine wants to get a Colt SAA in 45 Colt with 4 3/4" barrel.
I do not know much about the actual Colts, so I can't help him with picking one out very much.
I've read they came in 3 basic generations?
Gen 1, Original Colts, Black Powder era, pre-heat treating, low pressure loads only?
Gen 2, Smokeless era with heat treated steels suitable for 45acp+p pressures? 45 Colt level 2 loads?
Gen 3, ?
Now the CZ made Colts? He says he definitely wants a Colt made revolver, not CZ, and also not an import clone, Uberti... I also showed him the Ruger Blackhawk, but he would prefer a Colt.
I told him that with a Colt, it would be a 5 shot, leaving the one under the hammer empty.
He wants to shoot it alot, so probably not the Gen 1 Black Powder era guns.
I have read that chamber and throat dimensions could be all over the place on the Colts.
Did they figure that out by the Gen 3 guns? .451" barrel, .452" throats, no more sloppy huge chambers?

Did any of them come with adjustable sights, or just fixed sights?

He was referred to me by a Gunsmith friend about a year ago. He'd just bought a Henry All Weather 45-70 Levergun, and wanted to learn to cast bullets and reload. It ended up that he lives about 3 miles down the road from me, and is a really nice younger guy.

I showed him how to cast bullets, He's doing great at that. He bought a NOE Ranch Dog 350gn mold. Next we started on reloading. His father was telling him that home cast bullets and home reloaded ammo would never shoot accurately... We worked up a decent load with 4759 and got about 1" groups at 50 yds with open sights. He definitely took the target home to show Dad that it could be done.
He went all in on reloading gear, new Dillon 750, and a single stage press also, all the tools and extras... He works at home as a bank computer guy. Must be nice to see all the toys you want and just order them. No slight to him, he went to school for years to learn programming, then worked his way up to where he can work from home.

So anyway, now he wants to explore the Colt made SAA in 45 Colt, but I only know the basics on actual Colts.

Any suggestions or critical information I should know to pass on to him would be appreciated.

[wirepalidan]

I would strongly suggest that he become a member of the Colt forum and read everything he can find to help him make the best choice for his wants. Colt SAA's can get pricey quick. First and 2nd gen guns bring a premium. Colt had a strike and from what I've read some of the late 70's and early 80's guns had some fit and finish and quality issues and it's been suggested that if one is thinking of buying one in that range that they check it out real good in hand before buying. Also everything I've read suggests that the 45's typically had pretty big throats and some have suggested that if you want it to shoot he best you might be better finding a smaller caliber cylinder and having a good smith fit it and ream the throats out to the proper size. Colt New Frontier's of course had the adjustable sights if that's preferred.

[rWt]

Nov 17, 2024 1:24:46 GMT -5 wirepalidan said:

I would strongly suggest that he become a member of the Colt forum and read everything he can find to help him make the best choice for his wants. Colt SAA's can get pricey quick. First and 2nd gen guns bring a premium. Colt had a strike and from what I've read some of the late 70's and early 80's guns had some fit and finish and quality issues and it's been suggested that if one is thinking of buying one in that range that they check it out real good in hand before buying. Also everything I've read suggests that the 45's typically had pretty big throats and some have suggested that if you want it to shoot he best you might be better finding a smaller caliber cylinder and having a good smith fit it and ream the throats out to the proper size. Colt New Frontier's of course had the adjustable sights if that's preferred.

Excellent advice. I am a member of the Colt Forum (https://www.coltforum.com) and own 2 Colt SAA's. John Taffin's books also offer valuable information ("Book of the 45" and "Single Action Sixguns"). There definitely are different periods to know about. Early 2d Generation revolvers built during the 1950's are typically very well built and not as pricey as 1st Generation SAA's.

I have a 1958 Colt SAA in .45 Colt and a 2008 Colt SAA in 38-40, which I just purchased. Both have been sent to Alan Harton to make "right", action and trigger work, regulate the sights and provide 1-piece walnut sights.

As I understand it, all Colt .45 SAA's have oversized throats. I am not sure why that is the case. One opinion I have heard is that it is done to prevent excessive pressures from building. The Colt cylinder is comparatively small in diameter. The .45 cylinder doesn't have a lot of meat. Therefore, "mild" "factory" loads are recommended.

He should also join this forum. There is much to learn from searching this forum also.

[45MAN]

MISC. COMMENTS:

1. THERE ARE NO CZ MADE COLTS, ONLY COLTS MADE BY COLT, WHICH HAS HAD SEVERAL OWNERS OVER THE YEARS AND IS CURRENTLY OWNED BY CZ.

2. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE COLT HAS ALWAYS HAD AND STILL HAS OVERSIZED THROATS ON ITS 45 COLT REVOLVERS (SINGLE ACTION AND DOUBLE ACTION).

3. EXCEPT FOR THE NEW FRONTIER ADJUSTABLE SIGHTED REVOLVERS AND A FEW FACTORY "TARGET" REVOLVERS ALL OF COLT's SINGLE ACTION ARMY (SAA) REVOLVERS HAVE FIXED SIGHTS.

4. THE NEW FRONTIER REVOLVERS MAY HAVE ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS BUT THEY DO NOT "stir the soul" NOR HARKEN TO YESTERYEAR AND THE OLD WEST LIKE A TRADITIONAL COLT SAA.

5. THE SECOND GENERATION COLT SAA's ARE GENERALLY CONSIDERED TO BE THE BEST BUT THEY AIN'T CHEAP AND YOU STILL HAVE OVERSIZE 45 COLT THROATS.

6. I HAVE A COLT SAA "ARMORY" MODEL (PROBABLY 3rd GENERATION), NICKELED, FACTORY IVORIES, 4 3/4" BARREL AND FACTORY DUAL CYLINDERED 45ACP AND 45 COLT CYLINDERS, THAT I HAD RENOWNED COLT SAA GUNSMITH EDDIE JANS (RIP) "make right" WITH HIS SUPERB ACTION JOB AND FITTING A NICKELED 357 MAG CYLINDER AND THEN RECHAMBERING TO PROPER 45 COLT DIMENSIONS. WHEN YOU PICK THE GUN UP AND WORK THE ACTION YOU FEEL LIKE YOU GOT HISTORY IN YOUR HAND.

[bradshaw]

lar4570 and rWt.... check 1897 Colt in Vol. XIV (14) of photo series in Gallery section.
David Bradshaw

[marcruger]

If your friend wants to shoot one, I’d suggest he buy a 2004 to 2019 SAA, or buy a Standard Manufacturing SAR. I think this would minimize misery for someone with limited SAA knowledge. God Bless. Marc

[safestuffer]

Some Colt SAA's are decent ranging to pretty nice. Some Colt SAA's are worse than most Italian guns ive seen. The problem with Colt SAA's isn't that they can be rough. The problem is that even the rough ones are just as expensive as the nicer ones.

Truth be told, and this is a matter of opinion,
The nicest SAA's aren't Colts, they were American made clones. Standard Mfg makes nicer SA's than Colt, as did USFA.

[rexgigu]

Any prospective SAA owner should learn, preemptively, how to properly manage the hammer, so that he/she does not scar the cylinder, around the notches. The same applies to SAA design copies, with the traditional action design.

Edited to add: There is absolutely nothing wrong with opting for Rugers, especially if adjustable sights are desirable. For years, I wanted to find a decent Colt New Frontier, but after finding so many of them had been terribly abused, yet priced quite high, I have shifted to waiting for the “just-right” 4-5/8” Blackhawk to appear in the display case of the local “enabler.” I did buy an all-stainless steel Blackhawk Bisley, 5.5” barrel, with .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders, some time ago, when that production run was new and current, but its weight is just a bit much, for daily packin’.

[lar4570]

Thanks much for the information.
I'll see if he wants to join here and the colt forum also.
I have a Cimarron 45 Bisley flat top target and let him check it out.
He liked everything about it except not being made by Colt.
So I've heard that CZ owns Colt now, are the current SAA made at the Colt factory in the US?
Or are they made elsewhere and imported with the Colt name on them?
Dad had a Colt Mustang 380 many years ago, great little gun.
I have since learned that the Mustang was manufactured by Star, and imported by Colt with the Colt name on it.
How available are smaller caliber SAA cylinders for conversion to a tight 45 Colt?
Are they all the same length?

[470evans]

All Colt SAAs have been built in CT regardless of generation including the ones that Colt is building under CZ's ownership.

If he buys a 45 Colt in a Colt SAA the throats will measure +- .456 and to get maximum accuracy from them he should size his bullets accordingly.

I love Colt SAAs but my biggest issue with them is they often don't shoot to POA. This is where a good smith like Alan Harton comes in.

You can solve this problem by buying a Colt New Frontier with adjustable sights. They are no longer made and Colt says they have no additional frames which leaves you with finding one on the used market. The nicest ones are the post 2011 built ones.

It's also good advice to look at a Standard or USFA as they are great guns and built tighter than Colt.

He could also get a Ruger and while they are built like a tank don't have the feel of a Colt, USFA or Standard.

Whatever he gets I hope he enjoys it.

Colt New Frontier



Standard



USFA

[rjm52]

Bought a LNIB 1996(?) .45 Colt/4.75" a year ago off GunBroker and could not be more pleased. Never bothered measuring anything as it shoots right to the sight and the bullet goes right where the FANTASTIC trigger breaks.



Expect to pay $2200-2700 for a nice example.

Have seen a couple mint SAA New Frontiers (with adjustable sights) sell lately for $1600-2000. Usually the short barrels bring over $2k but lately the prices have been down.

Bob

[lar4570]

I think I like the idea of getting a 357 cylinder and having tight 45Colt chambers cut in it.
Who would be a good smith to do the work, and also is there one without a 5 year waiting list?
I know a local smith who is an excellent machinist. Would this be something he could do an his Mill as long as everything is indexed correctly?
Maybe be better to send it to someone who works on Revolvers every day?

[casualshooter]

470evans

I'm trying to unravel what you said:  You can solve this problem by buying a Colt New Frontier with adjustable sights. They are no longer made and Colt says they have no additional frames which leaves you with finding one on the used market. The nicest ones are the post 2011 built ones.

Read this from a search: No, Colt Single Action Army revolvers produced today are not made on the original machinery from the 1800s; while Colt still manufactures the Single Action Army, they use modern manufacturing techniques and machinery to produce them, although they strive to maintain the classic design and functionality of the original model.

Key points about modern Colt Single Actions:

Updated manufacturing:

While the design remains largely faithful to the original, modern production methods are used to create the guns.

Custom options:

Colt offers various customization options through their Custom Shop, allowing for variations in finishes and features.

If that is all true, there is no reason why Colt can't make their Single Action Army with the correct dimensions. I'm not so sure about they can't make the New Frontier frame.  They are not making the Single Action on the original old machinery. I think it's more like they don't want to make it. 

John

[votedent]

hello everyone, I’m who lar4570 mentioned when he made this post. I’ve read through this post and found myself on the colt forums as well.

What I’m seeing is roughly 2200 for most 357, 44 special if I wanted to send it off for a tight 45LC chamber. Even the 45LCs are around this price. I can’t seem to keep any of them below 2500.

I would absolutely love a gen 2 as I’m sure we all would.

I think I’m going to settle for a Standard MFG or US Fire Arms. If I do go with one of them do you guys recommend boring a 357 or 44 to 45lc or are these already pretty tight?

[lar4570]

Hello Votedent, good to see you here.
Piles of good information and knowledgeable people with actual experience. Not the armchair experts that like to copy and paste from other sources lol.

If he found one with a longer barrel? How hard would it be to cut it down, reinstall the sight and have it look factory?
Isn't the front sight soldered into a rounded slot at the front of the barrel?
Or would it be better to just wait for a 4 3/4" one to come along?