Savage 110 30-06 Recoil Issue

[x101airborne]

The 30-06 is my favorite medium range cartridge and I own more 30-06's than rifles in any other caliber. My best friend lost his Dad to the bug and inherited a Savage 110 in 30-06 with a wood stock. I was excited for him and offered to get it up and shooting, ready for this years whitetail season and for him to help me out shooting pests and vermin. One teeny tiny little problem.... that SOB kicks worse than my 375 H&H! Gawd almighty I shot 8 rounds off bags at the bench and my shoulder reminds me I had it overhauled two years ago and my neck feels like I just got sucker punched by George Foreman. 

For the -06, I like 180 grain soft points. Typical standard fodder for any animal around here, resists wind, reliable and predictable performance out to ranges I should not be trying shots on. For me, it just works. Started off with a clean barrel and loaded two Sellier and Bellott 180 grain semi pointed soft points. At the first shot I swear I heard bones crack. Immediately unloaded the rifle and went to the house to retrieve a slip on Limbsaver recoil pad. Once installed it made the length of pull a little long but my friend is 6'4" so I am sure it will still work for him. Second round, even with the new pad on, made me think of fishing. 

The rifle is stringing vertically a little, under 1.5 inches for 4 shots at 100 yards, but side to side the rounds are not varying more than around .25 inches. My shoulder is sore as hell! No doubt I was losing a little control off the bench with the rifle bucking so hard. It was probably coming loose in the bags under recoil. I know firing one or two rounds a day wont kill anybody but that rifle aint for bench work. Any suggestions on how to tame this beast? All opinions and ideas are welcome. Especially if you have actually worked with a rifle that was a beast and successfully tamed it. 

BTW.. I have tried the Sellier and Bellot load, Remington Core Lokt 180, and a PPU 180 factory load. All of these shot almost the same, good enough for hunting to 350 yards. 

[bigbrowndog]

look up a post from Bradshaw about how recoil or butt plate angle helps with recoil impulse. You might look at the angle of the butt and see if it is toe in from the heel, or if it’s perpendicular. His findings were that toe out from the heel greatly reduced felt recoil. He posted some pics, it’s in one of his Bradshaw Volumes.

Trapr

[bradshaw]

Trey.... I’ve written about outlandish recoil from a rifle before, here on Singleactions, and somewhere else before I came aboard. A brief description of an experiment with a Winchester Model 70 .338 Win Mag. Stainless steel 26” bbl, with what I call a Rubbermade stock. Length of pull (LOP) was too long for me; might have suited your 6’4” friend. Slab of hard rubber for a “recoil pad."

First three shots pulverized the factory bedding.


Bedding
Made dovetail cuts with Dremel & drum cutter to prevent bedding from loosening in bond-resistant rubbermade handle. Bedded the action with Marine Tex. Pillar bedded. Barrel free floated from chamber leade forward.

Shortened butt and installed 1” or 1.2” Kick-Eez sorbathane pad. Me experiment called for shimming Kick-Eez pad a three different angles.

Buttplate (recoil pad) angles
* Heel rearward, toe forward----fierce recoil. Comb jumps, smacks cheek. Poor accuracy. Easy to string shots vertically. When shooting off the bag, forend jumps.

* Butt relatively square to bore----tractable. Excellent accuracy. Comb doesn’t jump. On the bag, forend doesn’t jump.

* Toe rearward, heel forward----butt wants to drop on recoil; shots can go high.
David Bradshaw

[x101airborne]

Thank you for that. I will inspect the rifle.

[lar4570]

For a friends wedding present, I gave him a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag with the wood stock. He did not care for the recoil either.
He had a packmyre decellerator recoil pad put on instead of the factory pad. He said it made all the difference in the world and now enjoys shooting the rifle.

Aren't you in Texas? Do you really need a 180gn bullet?
For Whitetail, a 150 should work great.
I believe you have much larger Hogs than we do in Arkansas, so the 150 might be constructed a little light.
I shoot the 165 Corelokt in my 06. When I was in Idaho, the 165 Corelokt worked well on Mule Deer and really worked great on Elk. My Son was out of our 165 handloads one year and used some factory 150 Corelokts instead on his Elk. He said he had to track it all afternoon and shoot it several times. Finally he left an orange tape marker and came back to find it in the morning. He said the 150s didn't penetrate very well and did most of their damage in the shoulder before getting to the lungs.
It was only a sample size of 1 animal, but we decided to not use the 150s on Elk after that.
One year I decided to try the 180 Corelokt on Elk. My shot on a good sized Cow was only about 40 yds. At the shot she stumbled and her back legs went down, but then got to her feet and started following the rest of the herd. I put 4 more rounds tight behind the shoulder before she went down.
With the 165 Corelokts, between my Son and I we have easily taken 30ish Elk. Most of those were one shot kills.
I've been in Arkansas about 12 years and have used the 165s on the smallish Whitetail that are here and on a couple of pigs that were in the 160# range. I think the 165s might be constructed a little heavy for these small Whitetail, but they get the job done. The 165s seem to work well on the couple of pigs that I've shot with them.
Sorry I got a little long winded here.
I think a better recoil pad is definitely needed.
I would think about a lighter bullet for your friends 06 unless you feel you need the 180s for anything heavier than Whitetail.
Sorry I got a little long winded here.

[bradshaw]

lar4570.... you didn’t get long winded, you got specific.

My times behind a Savage bolt exposed some excellent accuracy, bedding challenges more complicated than for a Remington 700 or ’98 Mauser. Between the Savage 110 and and early post-1964 Winchester “Model 70,” as to which railroad tie kicked more like a mule it’s a tossup. It’s shocking how much a .243 can kick.

Stock proportions, length-of-pull, and the angle of the buttplate or recoil pad have everything to do with comfort and the exercise of marksmanship.
David Bradshaw

[bigbrowndog]

Fit,……is always important much more important than folks give it credit. I recall the look I got from my wife when I told her we were gonna pick up and handle lots and lots of rifles. But when she picked up the right one she would know……….she thought I was nuts!!!! But when she picked up her Tikka, it was instantaneous. She said this is it and looking went no farther. Fit, takes a back seat to looks and brand recognition, but it is way more important. Ever wonder why Perazzi flies a stock fitter and try gun to major shotgun events around the world!!! They know the importance of FIT.

Trapr

[rhino]

I have a sporterized Mauser in .30-06 that will knock the soda out of a biscuit when shooting 180 grains, it makes me shake like a dog shi#ing razor blades. It is definitely the shape of the stock/butt that causes it. I now shoot 165 grains and it’s comfortable and 1/2 moa if I do my part. YMMV, Rhino

[junebug]

A good recoil pad, lighter bullets and a muzzle brake. I never shoot anything without hearing protection [unless something is, or is about to chew on me] so the muzzle brake noise is a non issue to me. THEY SURE DO HELP TAME A KICKER . Whitt machine makes a clamp on brake if his gun is not threaded or he doesn't want to thread it. My 15 inch Encore is a nasty S.O.B. for me without a brake with a brake its a non issue.

[brant]

I had an experience when I was young with 2 single shot shotguns. One was a 20 ga and the other a 12 ga. They were of different manufacturers so the had different designed stocks. The 20 gauge kicked like a mule, away worse than the 12. If I remember we were shooting high brass number 6 in both. They belonged to 2 friends that were brothers and we were squirrel hunting and they wanted to show me the difference. Their grandpa explained it to us.

[nicholst55]

My recoil abuse story involves an M44 Mosin-Nagant carbine; a neat little rifle for what it was. At the time, the only ammo available was milsurp Heavy Ball. The short, skinny stock and pointed comb combined to beat the snot right out of me! Five rounds was doable; ten was my limit for the day. That left me with a bruised shoulder and cheek, and 'gun headache,' as the Brits call it. This was before Boxer-primed brass in this cartridge was prevelant, so no reduced loads for me. I sent that rifle down the road. WIsh I'd have kept it, because it would have been a good cast bullet gun.

[bradshaw]

Sept 2, 2024 10:16:39 GMT -5 nicholst55 said:

My recoil abuse story involves an M44 Mosin-Nagant carbine; a neat little rifle for what it was. At the time, the only ammo available was milsurp Heavy Ball. The short, skinny stock and pointed comb combined to beat the snot right out of me! Five rounds was doable; ten was my limit for the day. That left me with a bruised shoulder and cheek, and 'gun headache,' as the Brits call it. This was before Boxer-primed brass in this cartridge was prevelant, so no reduced loads for me. I sent that rifle down the road. WIsh I'd have kept it, because it would have been a good cast bullet gun.

*****

Heartily agree. The Mosin-Nagant tops my list for the most sadistic stock proportions on a battle rifle. Especially its sharp steel buttplate and cheekbone-cleaver comb.
David Bradshaw

[x101airborne]

Sept 1, 2024 17:40:09 GMT -5 lar4570 said:

For a friends wedding present, I gave him a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag with the wood stock. He did not care for the recoil either.
He had a packmyre decellerator recoil pad put on instead of the factory pad. He said it made all the difference in the world and now enjoys shooting the rifle.

Aren't you in Texas? Do you really need a 180gn bullet?
For Whitetail, a 150 should work great.
I believe you have much larger Hogs than we do in Arkansas, so the 150 might be constructed a little light.
I shoot the 165 Corelokt in my 06. When I was in Idaho, the 165 Corelokt worked well on Mule Deer and really worked great on Elk. My Son was out of our 165 handloads one year and used some factory 150 Corelokts instead on his Elk. He said he had to track it all afternoon and shoot it several times. Finally he left an orange tape marker and came back to find it in the morning. He said the 150s didn't penetrate very well and did most of their damage in the shoulder before getting to the lungs.
It was only a sample size of 1 animal, but we decided to not use the 150s on Elk after that.
One year I decided to try the 180 Corelokt on Elk. My shot on a good sized Cow was only about 40 yds. At the shot she stumbled and her back legs went down, but then got to her feet and started following the rest of the herd. I put 4 more rounds tight behind the shoulder before she went down.
With the 165 Corelokts, between my Son and I we have easily taken 30ish Elk. Most of those were one shot kills.
I've been in Arkansas about 12 years and have used the 165s on the smallish Whitetail that are here and on a couple of pigs that were in the 160# range. I think the 165s might be constructed a little heavy for these small Whitetail, but they get the job done. The 165s seem to work well on the couple of pigs that I've shot with them.
Sorry I got a little long winded here.
I think a better recoil pad is definitely needed.
I would think about a lighter bullet for your friends 06 unless you feel you need the 180s for anything heavier than Whitetail.
Sorry I got a little long winded here.

Sir, I dont mind at all your post. Specifics add to any conversation. 

Valid point about bullet weights. My reasoning for using 180's in the 30-06 is they buck wind better, they dont tear up whitetails with bloodshot yet accommodate most any shot angle within reason. They also handle most any hog I will get a shot on. I have never killed one, but there have been two 400 plus pound boars killed where I hunt. 300 pounders are not that common but not so uncommon either. Most hogs shot from stands are between 100 and 300 pounds but you dont always get the shot angle you really want either. This is where the extra weight comes in with bullet length and integrity to drive deep and break bones without splintering bone and bullet fragments into the meat. For me it is kinda like the guys who take heavy loaded 35 Whelen (or bigger) rifles into big bear country. They do kill whitetails and mulies without tearing half the animal apart yet stay together and hit hard enough to take on a large bear. The one rifle and one bullet for many tasks in that situation. Since I dont have bears, I lean on the 30-06. If I ever do get the chance at an Elk, I know my drop out to 400 yards and have been practicing for that shot for over 25 years. 


I also shoot coyotes and bobcats with the same load and the 180's dont tear pelts up near as bad as 150's. Again it is good practice to hit small targets at distance without changing sight settings or trying to remember what you brought this time and how it is sighted in. If it is a 30-06, it is sighted in three inches high at 100 yards with a 180 grain boat tail soft point. If I want to shoot 150's, I will bring a 308. Again every 308 is sighted three inches high at 100 yards with a 150 grain bullet. Everything the same every time. Thanks for the discussion. 

[lar4570]

300-400# Hogs, I would definitely want the 180s as well.
My other thought was a mercury recoil reducer that you install in the butt under the recoil pad.
Muzzle brakes will reduce the recoil, but they are loud. Lots of people say to slip in ear plugs before you shoot, but when I'm hunting I never think of it when I see something to shoot.

[x101airborne]

Sept 3, 2024 7:20:10 GMT -5 lar4570 said:

300-400# Hogs, I would definitely want the 180s as well.
My other thought was a mercury recoil reducer that you install in the butt under the recoil pad.
Muzzle brakes will reduce the recoil, but they are loud. Lots of people say to slip in ear plugs before you shoot, but when I'm hunting I never think of it when I see something to shoot.

Understand, 3-4 hundred pound hogs are "possible", not "probable"; but you always have to plan on the unexpected, right?

Have you ever used a mercury reducer? Do they really work as advertised? I have never used one so this has me curious.