Garmin Speaks, and Answers Questions - 45 Colt

[marcruger]

Went shooting with friend today. 45 Colt. Could not hit the broad side of a barn with the 45 Colt, but did just fine with a 45acp revolver. Something smelled fishy. Some 45 Colt shots went way over the target, some way under, some hit. Same sight picture. Clean trigger breaks.

Due to house construction, no handloading has gone on for over five months, so shooting "economical" Herter's 45 Colt lead roundnose 250 grain load. As background, sometimes this is loaded in "USA" brand brass, but recently it comes in "Winchester" marked brass. In this past this has been a reasonably accurate load in the 750 fps range.

With ten rounds left I decided to chrono the load with the Garmin. One round would not chamber, and when examined, the case mouth was shoved halfway down the length of the bullet on one side. Looked like an "Elvis" sneer. Clearly a badly loaded factory round. So I chronographed the last nine rounds:

Minimum 400.3 fps
Average 705.3 fps
Maximum 818.9 fps
Extreme Spread 418.6
Standard Deviation 133.4

633.7, 400.3, 810.7, 801.0, 813.3, 818.9, 764.6, 715.9, and 589.1 fps.

No kidding. Has anyone ever seen factory ammo perform this poorly? I am frankly amazed I did not stick one at 400.3 fps or 589.1.

No matter what the cause, I won't be buying any Herter's again. That is abysmal.....if not dangerous.

I am not normally one to slam a product, but this was miserable, especially at $50.00 per box.

I thought we used to be able to post pictures without a hosting site? Am I wrong? I have a picture of the Garmin readout.

Best wishes, Marc

[dobegrant]

Wow, that is pretty extreme spread of velocity,

[dougader]

Downright lousy ammo. Even I craft more consistent ammo than that.

[bigbore5]

I would contact the manufacturer. That's dangerous.

[drdougrx]

I’m always suspect of Herters ammo. I have several boxes of 20ga slugs that I bought at Cabelas a few years ago for $4.99 per box of 10. They won’t cycles in any of my autos. I tried Winchester and no prob with significant increase in recoil. I may disassemble them and reload with a more reasonable powder charge.

[Gunny268]

Earlier this summer my daughter bought some "Herter's" ammo in 22LR, 45 Colt, & 357 Mag. When she shot it, she complained and swore she had "never shot her guns this bad??? I told her to not shoot any more of that ammo and I'd investigate during my next visit. I measured and pulled a bunch from each caliber. What got my attention was 2 of the 10 rounds pulled from the 22LR didn't even have powder. The 45 Colt had powder charges all over the place. As much as 0.7 grs difference between lightest and heaviest charge weights. Only 2 out of 10 rounds actually had the same charge weight. The 357 was just as bad. I just pulled all the center fire slugs and fertilized the grass down by the range. Used the slugs and primed brass to work up some range plinking loads for her. Also cautioned her to never buy that "brand?" ever again. No matter how tempting the price.

[bigbore5]

That's why I roll my own. I know it's good.

[marcruger]

A couple of thoughts:

1 - Yes, clearly handloading is the ongoing answer for calibers like 44 Special and 45 Colt. As noted in my original post, due to construction I have not been able to handload for five months. Hence shooting some Herter's.

2 - Herter's has not always been bad. In a photo I have from 1.5 years ago, there are 50 rounds in a ragged hole, offhand at 20 yards with Herter's 45 Colt ammo. Won't win a bullseye match, but not terrible like the last box of Herter's 45 Colt. This was loaded in brass labeled "USA, 45 Colt". Decent brass that has now been reloaded many times and I haven't lost one.

3 - In my opinion, the new Garmin has rendered all others obsolete for the hobbyist. Not more accurate but way more convenient. I checked it against a ProChrono and basically got the same speed readings.

4 - This Herter's box of 50 in Winchester brass was appallingly bad. I was wondering why some shots hit way above the steel plate, and some way below. With those velocity figures it is amazing I hit at all.

[marcruger]

In case anyone was wondering, yes I know what good numbers look like. My favorite 44 Special load of 5.0 grains of TiteGroup under a 240 grain LSWC turns in 800 fps with an extreme spread of 16 and a standard deviation of 5.7. I don't expect factory loads to be that good, but this Herter's box/batch was downright scary bad.

God Bless, Marc

[cas]

I recall reloading some .45 Scholfield brass down to 625 fps. That was just putt-putting along and you could see them go the whole way from muzzle to target.
I can't imagine 400 fps (from a full length case), you're lucky they were coming out.

[marcruger]

To follow up, I had one last box of Herter's 45 Colt, so I took it to the range with the chrono.

I got:

Average 747.7 fps
Min 738.9 fps
Max 758.0
Extreme Spread 19.1
Standard Deviation 6.3

Go figure, right? Great numbers and it hit what I was aiming at.

I dearly wish I had not tossed the box for the first 50 rounds I posted earlier. I would really like to have that lot number.

That OP load was crazy bad, and this was pretty darned excellent. What is up with Herter's?

Best wishes, and God Bless, Marc

[Gunny268]

Talked to the daughter yesterday. She spoke with Dale?/Dan? the ammo guy for a BassPro in Orlando. And she referenced this point in their conversation. "According to D?" the Herters Brand is a vanity house branding under contract provided by various ammo manufacturers. Any manufacturer that will meet BassPro's acceptable price point are then contracted for a particular run of ammo by caliber. They will buy from any reputable manufacturer (U.S./ Czech / Argentinian (CBC) / Mexican / whoever) as determined by wholesale cost, shipping/distribution. That's just business.

[marcruger]

Yes, I understood that for years the "Herter's" name was an umbrella for items made by others and marketed. The odd thing is that I have shot maybe 600 rounds or more of the 45 Colt and it behave very well and was accurate. In this case it seems like whoever did the loading had a bad-machine-day.