The Elusive BFR 6-Shot 454 Casull...

[bigbore5]

The BFR cylinder demonstrated minimum bulging before letting go in the first gun. The second gun didn't display any measurable bulging, yet still failed at the same range of pressure. I don't approach that level of pressure with anything I load in these guns.

For the 500L I have chosen 45,000 psi as the cut off point. Those of you who recall when Whitworth was posting on here, he agreed about the range I settled on. And that man knows both big bores and the BFR as well as anyone and said my results were close to the factory failure tests, but they had less sophisticated equipment to work with, as they used piezoelectric equipment which can get inaccurate at higher pressure with extreme test loads.

[Encore64]

Great information from someone who's done it.

As Ronnie posted earlier in this thread, there's some experimenters who've successfully done all sorts of things.

There's always lots of armchair theorists who pontificate about what's safe and proper. But, in reality, haven't really done the deed!!!

I've already been "warned" a number of times about my "unsafe" purchase. Does anybody really believe Magnum Research hasn't done tests to proof this product?

Ronnie has been doing some exciting things with available high strength steels too. We've been discussing a couple projects for several years that he's been successfully testing. Hopefully he'll been posting some of these soon.

So, a big THANKS to the fellow experimenters who get up and do it!!!

[Ramar]

Thanks for the detail on your experimentation, Bigbore5. Very interesting and it gives a high degree of confidence in the BFR platform.

[bradshaw]

The staring point of the BFR is, to put it country simple, Bill Ruger’s New Model. Magnum Research expanded the chassis of Ruger’s Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk, and incorporated without alteration his prescient transfer bar passive safety system. Again to put it country simple, Ruger’s New Model is the only single action lockwork I carry loaded all-up. The beauty of this system self-fulfills afield, when a bt of excitement does not materialize in a shot; you then lower the hammer on the cocked chamber, same as you would a double action revolver, safe to continue on your way. No need to re-index the empty chamber. It was a brilliant move for Magnum Research to adopt the New Model lockwork straight-up.

I much prefer a six-shooter to a five-shooter when there is room for the rounds and strength is not compromised. That said, the only time I fired four shots on a jumped, now running, buck, the last three shots proved redundant.

The gun has a long cylinder which slows barrel face erosion. (For most shooters, a non-issue. And much less an issue with stainless barrels.)

The 1:16 inch twist is a welcome change, expanding bullet, velocity, and load selection. While Dick Casull told me his 1:24” twist was the most accurate, Dick favored high velocity. It takes a lot of velocity to compensate for a faster twist. Dick Casull and Roy Weatherby rode the velocity trail, Roy with a bolt rifle, Dick with a revolver. The BFR .454 with 1:16 twist opens the door to a .45 ACP cylinder for instruction & training, gallery shooting and quiet practice. As an example of faster twist versatility, .45 ACP loads which veer @ 100 yards when fired through the 1:24 twist my scoped Freedom Arms M83, hang tight from the 1:16 twist of my Bo-Mar sight Les Bear 1911 Super Tac.

There’s another area to cover with this new BFR, specifically, the grip frame. Several of the Ronnie Wells Grip Frames (RWGF) demonstrate important recoil attenuation----while reducing revolver weight nearly 1/2 pound (8 oz). These, of course, are aluminum variants of the same pattern in brass or stainless steel. An aluminum Bison Finger Groove or Bradshaw Bisley, or other shock reducing RWGF, will cost you more in ammunition because you will shoot it more----while smacking your anatomy. After the initial investment, that’s a lifetime of free lunch.

Complimented by its precise tooling, sounds like there’s a lot to explore with this BFR.
David Bradshaw

[45MAN]

Aug 2, 2024 7:04:38 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

The staring point of the BFR is, to put it country simple, Bill Ruger’s New Model. Magnum Research expanded the chassis of Ruger’s Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk, and incorporated without alteration his prescient transfer bar passive safety system. Again to put it country simple, Ruger’s New Model is the only single action lockwork I carry loaded all-up. The beauty of this system self-fulfills afield, when a bt of excitement does not materialize in a shot; you then lower the hammer on the cocked chamber, same as you would a double action revolver, safe to continue on your way. No need to re-index the empty chamber. It was a brilliant move for Magnum Research to adopt the New Model lockwork straight-up.

I much prefer a six-shooter to a five-shooter when there is room for the rounds and strength is not compromised. That said, the only time I fired four shots on a jumped, now running, buck, the last three shots proved redundant.

The gun has a long cylinder which slows barrel face erosion. (For most shooters, a non-issue. And much less an issue with stainless barrels.)

The 1:16 inch twist is a welcome change, expanding bullet, velocity, and load selection. While Dick Casull told me his 1:24” twist was the most accurate, Dick favored high velocity. It takes a lot of velocity to compensate for a faster twist. Dick Casull and Roy Weatherby rode the velocity trail, Roy with a bolt rifle, Dick with a revolver. The BFR .454 with 1:16 twist opens the door to a .45 ACP cylinder for instruction & training, gallery shooting and quiet practice. As an example of faster twist versatility, .45 ACP loads which veer @ 100 yards when fired through the 1:24 twist my scoped Freedom Arms M83, hang tight from the 1:16 twist of my Bo-Mar sight Les Bear 1911 Super Tac.

There’s another area to cover with this new BFR, specifically, the grip frame. Several of the Ronnie Wells Grip Frames (RWGF) demonstrate important recoil attenuation----while reducing revolver weight nearly 1/2 pound (8 oz). These, of course, are aluminum variants of the same pattern in brass or stainless steel. An aluminum Bison Finger Groove or Bradshaw Bisley, or other shock reducing RWGF, will cost you more in ammunition because you will shoot it more. And likely carry it more.

Complimented by precise machine work, sounds like there’s a lot to explore with this BFR.
David Bradshaw

Messr. BRADSHAW: AS OFTEN THE CASE, ANOTHER POST CHOCK FULL OF INFORMATION.

THE SLOWER TWIST OF THE FA 454 HAS ALWAYS "BUGGED ME". I AM CONTEMPLATING A LONG BARRELED BFR IN 45 COLT FOR HUNTING, ALL THE SAME MATERIALS AND TIGHT SPECS AS A BFR 454 BUT WITH A CYLINDER CHAMBERED JUST FOR 45 COLT. HAVE SEVERAL FA 454 & 45 COLT CYLINDERED REVOLVERS BUT ALL THE 45 COLT CYLINDERS HAVE LOOSE CHAMBERS, THROATS ARE GOOD BUT WITH HEAVY (454 EQUIVALENT) 45 COLT LOADS MY WINCHESTER BRASS SWELLED SUCH THAT YOU COULD NOT RESIZE IT TO FIT IN A TIGHT CHAMBERED REVOLVER. AND I AM DELIGHTED TO KNOW THAT A 45 COLT BFR WOULD HAVE A 1:16 TWIST. 

I KNOW HUEY IS LIKING HIS 6 SHOT 454 A LOT BUT AM THINKING I WILL STICK WITH A 5 SHOT.

[45MAN]

HUEY: THANKS, I MIS-STATED AND HAVE CORRECTED MY POST TO SAY THE "SLOWER TWIST" OF THE FA 454

[bradshaw]

Rey.... my M83 .454 Casull with 4-3/4” barrel and factory cylinders in .45 Colt and .45 ACP each enjoy firm chambers, and pose no loading problems.

One of my very favorite .45 ACP loads, the Remington Golden Saber 230 JHP seated over 8.5/Accurate #5, prints tighter @ 100 yards from the Ruger 03 and Les Baer 1911 Super Tac than the Freedom Arms M83. With these sights:
* Freedom Arms M83, 1:24” twist----Leupold 4x.
* Ruger 03, 1:16” twist----2 Dogs RWGF rear sight, Redhawk insert front.
* Les Baer Super Tac, 1:16” twist----Bo-Mar rear, Les Baer front.

For all the differences between these three pistols, I suspect the fine Remington Golden Saber prefers 1:16.

I have other ammunition experiences which corroborate the above observation. For my ammo preferences, I’d say 1:24 is the picky eater.
David Bradshaw

[gnappi]

A six shot .454 is yet another reason to love the BFR. Magnum Research is nimble enough to go the extra mile for potential buyers and make changes to their lineup that bigger makers wouldn't touch.

[Encore64]

So Bradshaw brought up a very good point about twist rates.

I have a FA97 and 83 that both have auxiliary cylinders in 45 ACP. I've enjoyed exceptional accuracy with them.

But, stretching the range out will drop both velocity and rotational spin. Stability (accuracy) will most certainly suffer.

A 1-24" Twist Rate is 33% slower than the BFR's 1-16". That's a lot to compensate for as Bradshaw stated.

While the 454 Casull is most certainly 33% Plus faster than a 45 Colt, it's hard to push a 45 ACP 33% faster than factory.

As we've seen from the 460 Rowland, it's not impossible. But, requires caution and then I'd not use such ammo in my FA97.

Might be interesting to stretch ranges out to determine where loads loose stability. Then increase velocity and see how many more yards are gained.

Complicated enough to pique my simple mind.

[cmillard]

I agree on the twist! My BFR in .454 shoots primarily heavy .45 colt loads of over 1200 fps with GT bullets 385 grain cast hp. Casull loads I shoot 300 xtps. I would be curious to see how my heavy colt load with that 385 grain would do in the slower twist of an m83.

[bradshaw]

Aug 2, 2024 23:54:05 GMT -5 cmillard said:

I agree on the twist! My BFR in .454 shoots primarily heavy .45 colt loads of over 1200 fps with GT bullets 385 grain cast hp. Casull loads I shoot 300 xtps. I would be curious to see how my heavy colt load with that 385 grain would do in the slower twist of an m83.

*****

A call to Magnum Research should twist rate(s) for BFR variants. My impression is everyone chambering .454 Casull adopted the SAAMI spec 1:24” twist. Huey’s report indicates BFR has switched from Dick Casull’s twist to the old Colt .45 1:16 twist for the six shot BFR. When Freedom Arms’ owner Wayne Baker was jumping round like water dropped in hot lead and Dick Casull was the Guru, I fully expected Dick to land the First Bullet on the Moon. I sure could have used a Ronnie Wells grip frame when Dick handed me his 12-inch octagon .454, along with a load from his secret stash, and then walked down to stand a small square of .400” steel plate against a gravel berm. I already knew the grip frame on Dick’s M83 was contoured to his hand and wasn’t great for mine. And now I’m holding a Dick Casull rocket launcher with alchemy for gunpowder. I held the bull by the horns and tried to float my trigger finger with a death grip. The 12 inch octagon did not pipe me on the head, yet I won’t ready for the humiliation of a miss.

As the cloud of dust cleared, “Dick said, “You center-punched it!” Dicked briskly walked down to retrieve the black plate, a silver hole drilled through its middle. Dick and Wayne Baker were elected, I was relieved. I takes a lot of velocity to do that. A Rocks & Dynamite load in the .454 Casull. The .45 Colt doesn’t reach that orbit. Which is why Dick Casull brought us his cartridge. Worth remembering, also, that Dick Casull kept his revolver in the 3 pound category for practical carry.

Pressure vs twist
Experiments have shown higher velocities can be attained by slowing the twist. There is an entropy to this caper, the highest velocities are reached without rifling and no twist at all. Stands to reason higher velocity may be attained with less pressure through a slow twist. These findings were developed in closed-breech barrels. Given the barrel/cylinder gap in a revolver, I doubt a slower twist reduces pressure.
David Bradshaw

[Encore64]

Keeping in mind, I'm going by the information provided on the Magnum Research Website...

shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/copy-of-bfr-44-magnum-revolver-stainless-steel/

NOTE: Pulled the cylinder and the rifling does in fact twist about half the bore over 7". I'm confident the website's information is correct...

[sixguntech]

Last I heard, the BFR was built with Green Mountain barrels. I was surprised when I reached out to Magnum Research asking about the, then newly announced .357 BFR, that they were using a 1:20” twist barrel. The BFR revolver in .357 seemed to be tailor made for heavy bullets, strange choice of twist rate, seems they could have simply used the Green Mountain .358 1:14” twist, though I have not heard anyone complaining about lack of accuracy with the .357 BFR, with heavy (180 grain +) bullets. Steve

[cmillard]

My BFR has 1-16" twist. I know BFR at one time used badger barrels, which is now wilson. My 16" twist shoots superbly

[Encore64]

My BFR 357 Magnum has a .3555" Bore. In my experience .358" is too big.

I've always preferred a bore to choke bullets down a bit. Especially when shooting cast bullets which I do 99% of the time.

I've shot a lot of Stateline 195 grn Bullets in mine with excellent accuracy.