Guns & Knives- An experiment

[Burnston]

For years I've packed my holster gun and my knife exactly opposite of how common sense would dictate; both strong side, belt holster in front of the second RH belt loop, knife behind. 


With some creative belt loop construction, this can be made to work reasonably well until it does not. This particular method of carry began out of habit over practicality, and has simply remained habit. It started with my flawed but dominant tendency to cast my loop with my right hand over my horse's head to his left side. You see, I had a left-handed horse, (only slightly joking) and while running down cattle would often bring them up on his left shoulder. Not wanting to have any obstacle on my left hip when the slack ran out, I made sure my left side was always clear. Additionally, I prefer a strong side draw regardless of what I'm drawing; pistol or knife. 

While the placement itself hasn't been a problem, deployment recently cost me a great deal. After hooking on to an aggressive bull, who was just a touch too big and far too fast, I found my slack pulled out before I had a good dally. Tying hard and fast to my horn is another flawed habit from my younger faster days which needs altering, and I became half crushed by a trusty but "older" Joe Hancock. After shouting "every man for himself!" Joe Hancock started to panic and I found myself in a tangle of three strand lead lined lariat and fiery black hooves. Attempting to draw my TOPS M-Pat upwards from behind my pistol cost me a few serious split seconds. 

Long story short, I ended up with a cut lariat after finally freeing my blade, a shook up horse, a bruised ego, a more severely bruised femur and dislocated knee. This was all fine though, because I was alone in a 400 acre pasture with no cell service and no one close by to witness the wreck. 

I've since altered my carry method for a more streamline deployment in a 'murdecy.


As some of you know, I loath a tension screw, and for whatever reason the pro hide stretchers are reluctant or outright unwilling to discuss the finer nuances of their practical application and installation. Nevertheless, with a light knife and the right gauge leather, so far this upside-down rig has proved useful and far superior over the last thirty days or so. I bought a cheap $50 knife to test the method on the off chance that I loose it.

Carrying a knife in this way depends on two things;
A. Internal welt/tension screw cooperation
B. Maintaining a relatively slim body profile. Unless I blunt the tip of the scabbard, it can really eat into you if you turn at the wrong angle or add a few extry pounds. 

Trials are ongoing, and I sincerely hope not to find myself in another wreck wherein I can test it using the same variables. That said, so far so good. 

[1873coltguy]

I carry my working guns in much the same way but instead of a fixed blade I have a Gerber multi tool. I am left handed but do most fun stuff right handed. But this allows me to keep my wallet in my left side pocket and I carry my bench made folder right next to it. I tried different fixed blades but they all required two hands to safely put back in the sheath without perforation of my blossoming dad bod. Only thing I saw that would give me pause in your carry method is if your sheath tip is not reinforced to keep the knife from pushing through when you have your next wreck. Maybe something as simple as two rivet or screws to trap the forward movement of the blade. Lot of weight there if something went wrong. But just my two cents. I like your holsters

[Burnston]

Jul 18, 2024 8:57:10 GMT -5 1873coltguy said:

I carry my working guns in much the same way but instead of a fixed blade I have a Gerber multi tool. I am left handed but do most fun stuff right handed. But this allows me to keep my wallet in my left side pocket and I carry my bench made folder right next to it. I tried different fixed blades but they all required two hands to safely put back in the sheath without perforation of my blossoming dad bod. Only thing I saw that would give me pause in your carry method is if your sheath tip is not reinforced to keep the knife from pushing through when you have your next wreck. Maybe something as simple as two rivet or screws to trap the forward movement of the blade. Lot of weight there if something went wrong. But just my two cents. I like your holsters

Good catch. The tip has a strip of 12 ounce leather sewn between the two 8 ounce exterior pieces. The tip rests close, but not in direct contact with that 12 ounce strip. Hopefully that will keep it from poking through, but if not, I suppose I have some blood to spare.

[contender]

Here's another POSSIBLE idea.

Why not try a fixed bladed knife, in a sheath that allows it to follow the belt? That way,, the knife isn't potentially digging into the body, no risk of it poking through leather, (and I have seen that,) and still allows the strong side drawing. It would just require a sheath with a tunnel type of belt loop along the back. Maybe a slight tension screw adjustment too.

[bigbrowndog]

Interesting,….. two ideas came to mind. First was one I’d seen in an old picture of a Ranger carrying his blade in front of his holster instead of in back. I actually tried it this past week because I’d thought it would be a problem whenever reaching for the revolver. It was not, the hand went to the revolver directly everytime. Perhaps a knife with a taller handle would pose a problem or sheath that carries the blade higher would be, but not for my small Ralston Belt buddy.
The other thought was a horizontal carry sheath or acutely angled sheath also carried in front of the holster, more of a crossdraw style.

[foxtrapper]

Glad you made it out ok! I have a holster that has a strap buckle that goes across the front, where I carry my single six. I attached the sheath of my buck folder to that strap. Worked great! I have pondered why shuck makers don’t off aknife sheath sewn directly to the holster.

[Fowler]

Have you tried a horizontal sheath along the middle to strong side of your back?

I was raised with the thought process that fixed blade knives are not for horse work, get tossed and land on your side and things can get messy. That said having it along side your handgun to protect you from getting it pressed into your side too much helps the safety part but not really the deployment part. I have always had a folding knife or 2 on my that I can deploy easily one handed, flip of the wrist, thumb button, assisted opening style, whatever. always seemed when I needed a blade the most my left hand was busy with something...

[needsmostuff]

Completely out of the box that may have no interest but, a different option.
This is from years ago but I believe clones are still available on EBAY. Or just sew one up.
Horizontal, one-handed auto-opening, for a Buck 110. And yeah, they really do work and can be worn strong side or crossdraw.





Just a thought.

[junebug]

My first thought on seeing the upside down carry was that's going to be dangerous, in a wreck. Horizontal carry in the small of the back works well unless you land flat on your back in the wreck then it can be problematic to access. Behind the left hip seems a viable option but will require retraining on your part to develop new muscle memory for a smooth draw of the blade. Wishing you a speedy recovery, wrecks are always bad and some hurts require a few days to show themselves.

[fm027]

One more vote for a horizontal/cross-draw style if you're just wearing jeans, only I'm a fixed blade guy. A folding one requires too much fumbling on a horse. Burnston explained it right about being tied on or dallied to some piece of beef yankin on the other end while things are going to hell, a folding knife is the wrong choice. When things start happening, there's no time to dicker around, guy has to have a fixed one ready. When just in jeans, I wear mine between the loops immediately left of my buckle. Sixgun strongside.

In the winter time thiugh, I carry my knife in an open-top right leg pocket near my knee like the side of carharts have. Easiest location of all to reach a hand down and grab fast. Bit warmer spring/fall and cool summer weather I keep a knife on my chaps in a similar fashion. My step-ins were custom done with a slim pocket sewn in that same area as carhart bibs have the leg pockets, I had one put onto that upper side of your right knee area just a little below where a rope would sit if you were dragging or tripping something behind you. I use that pocket too as a scours-pill applicator keeper diring spring when calves get sick. Works awesome as a place to keep that long applicator when getting on & off alot roping sick calves.

Anyway. Just what I do season to season. Right side lower down on the leg near the knee is always exposed, never covered with a jacket and not hidden behind a gun grip. That's my favourite spot for a knife for the work like you're talkin Burnston.

[45MAN]

IS THE OBJECT OF THIS DISCUSSION FOR A RIGHT HANDER TO BE ABLE TO GRAB THE KNIFE QUICK WITH HIS OR HER RIGHT HAND FOR IMMEDIATE USE? I AM RIGHT HANDED AND CARRY MY GUN ON MY RIGHT SIDE BUT I ALWAYS HAVE MY BELT KNIFE ON MY LEFT SIDE.

[Burnston]

Jul 18, 2024 9:18:56 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

Interesting,….. two ideas came to mind. First was one I’d seen in an old picture of a Ranger carrying his blade in front of his holster instead of in back. I actually tried it this past week because I’d thought it would be a problem whenever reaching for the revolver. It was not, the hand went to the revolver directly everytime. Perhaps a knife with a taller handle would pose a problem or sheath that carries the blade higher would be, but not for my small Ralston Belt buddy.
The other thought was a horizontal carry sheath or acutely angled sheath also carried in front of the holster, more of a crossdraw style.

Both compelling suggestions. The "crossdraw" style you mentioned is pretty popular among the rodeo crowd, or the weekend cowboy crowd, no disrespect intended. Unfortunately I've yet to come across a full time working hand who endorses this carry method, at least not one whose in the saddle every day. I've known a few who've tried it and it doesn't typically last. I've never tried it personally. I am intrigued by your suggestion for carry in front of my holster, though that would take some significant retraining. 

[Burnston]

Jul 18, 2024 10:15:05 GMT -5 Fowler said:

Have you tried a horizontal sheath along the middle to strong side of your back?

I was raised with the thought process that fixed blade knives are not for horse work, get tossed and land on your side and things can get messy. That said having it along side your handgun to protect you from getting it pressed into your side too much helps the safety part but not really the deployment part. I have always had a folding knife or 2 on my that I can deploy easily one handed, flip of the wrist, thumb button, assisted opening style, whatever. always seemed when I needed a blade the most my left hand was busy with something...

I have tried the scout/horizontal carry. It is problematic for two reasons. 
A. I ride high back saddles and there is always a disruption between the knife on the small of my back and the top of the saddle.
B. My mood alters dramatically towards the irritable when I lean against a feed truck seat with a knife in the small of my back. Incidentally, I have the same problem with small of my back pistol carry for ccw. 

I see your point about fixed blades and horse work, but I was raised the opposite. Usually if you're in the saddle and something needs cut it's an emergency and needs done quick. As fm027 pointed out, "there's no time to dicker around when things start happening," though a one handed assisted opening or switch blade would certainly mitigate said "dickering." It's a valid point, similar to why I carry revolver instead of a semi while mounted. For me, the fixed blade benefits far outweigh its risks, though I'd not say the same thing about semi's v. revolvers. 

[Burnston]

Jul 18, 2024 11:32:21 GMT -5 junebug said:

My first thought on seeing the upside down carry was that's going to be dangerous, in a wreck. Horizontal carry in the small of the back works well unless you land flat on your back in the wreck then it can be problematic to access. Behind the left hip seems a viable option but will require retraining on your part to develop new muscle memory for a smooth draw of the blade. Wishing you a speedy recovery, wrecks are always bad and some hurts require a few days to show themselves.

Thanks for the well wishes. I've considered your observation, with the point aiming upward. I've placed a thick internal welt inside the scabbard to help mitigate this; unfortunately the only way to know it is truly sound is to have another wreck and then check to see if I've a perforated brisket. So far I like the upside-down carry, so I've considered using folded kydex, and bringing the entire knife slightly lower so that the tip barely extends above the belt line. 

[contender]

Good point about the knife & saddle arrangement if worn horizontal. I hadn't considered high back saddles.