On loading 38 short colt cases to higher pressure

[earl54]

I am starting with a rifle barrel chambered in .380 acp. , rechambered to 38 short colt and it is 18 inches long. It is mounted on an NEF rifle action that also is a 308 Winchester in its other barrel. 9x19 cases and 38 short are close in case capacity ( 9mm=.754 case length, 38sc=.765 case length). Is it a bad idea to load 38sc to 9mm pressures. Why am I going down this road you ask - I have 2000 starline 38 short colt cases that are once fired, and because I want to. It will be used to hunt small and medium game at short ranges. I do not have pressure testing equipment so I will have to go by case pressure signs, I realise that is a sort of witchcraft but it is the best I have( other than asking questions).

[Encore64]

I'd start by measuring web thickness. Using a Dial Caliper, measure the case length and depth. The difference would be the thickness.

Then compare that to 38 Special, 357 Magnum, etc.

There are Starline Cases that are built for extra strength. But, their alloy is known for strength so thickness is paramount.

Another forum member and I have plotted this same idea, so happy to see you planning this.

[cas]

People are (were?) shooting .38 Short Colt for USPSA. You should be able to find some "non traditional" load dat over on what's left of the Brian Enos forum.

[x101airborne]

Get a bunch of different cases and weigh them full of water. Take lots of notes. If all the cases only vary by a couple grains you are probably ok to use other load data. If there is a big variance in capacity, that can give you a hint as to what you need or can load them to.

[earl54]

I am going to do a capacity comparison and if the capacity of 38sc is greater than 9mm, and head thickness is comparable in depth/thickness, I am going to use starting loads with equal weight cast bullets. Cast bullets for a lower chamber pressure compared to jacketed bullets of equal weight.

[Encore64]

Sounds very sensible. Rarely are weak cases an issue.

You'll always find hysterical folks who proclaim that certain cases were designed for certain pressures. Just because that's what the original load produced, doesn't mean that's the maximum the case was designed for.

The 38 Special is a prime example. The 38-44 Loadings lead to the 357 Magnum. But, some of the hot loaded 38-44 Loads produced much more pressure than 357 Magnums.

Doom was predicted when guys started hot loaded 45 Colts. But, 50k loads are common place now.

Some of Sharpe's 44-40 Loads were hotter than modern 44 Magnums. Still, the "Weak 44-40 and 38-40 Brass" rumors continue.

Do your thing (Cautiously) and keep us posted. I appreciate many of our ancestors such as Keith, Sharpe, Casull and others. But, the party isn't over and the fat lady didn't sing.

[earl54]

Double post

[earl54]

I am up to 1200 FPS with a Lyman 358156, just starting to see primers flattening. That is my max, will use the case head measurement as my max load indication.I want a load for a 160 grain full wadcutter at 1000fps +or- to use for a woods walking load.The NEF receiver I am using is a AAC/NEF 300 blackout receiver, the NEF rifle receiver.Rifle weight is 5 pounds,8 ounces,with plastic stock and Skinner peep sight. Cases are looking good, no bulges or other damage. BTW - once fired cases, used each one once as I worked up to MY max load.

[lar4570]

Hello, I am very late to this thread. Don't know how I missed it...
I think this sounds like a great project and use of the NEF single shot.
I agree that just starting to see flatening of the primers should be totally safe and a reasonable max indicator if you are using small pistol primers.
The rifle action should be rated for 60kpsi with an 06' sized case head. So assuming that your primer pockets do not start to get loose, you should be good to go.
I looked in Quickload and it shows a case volume of 11gn H2O, a case length of .755" and cartridge length of 1.2". You didn't mention your loaded length with the Lyman 358156, so I just left it at 1.2"
I put in a barrel length of 18". I used Unique with a 100% load density and 3.4gns should give 1064fps @ 25,500psi.
I used a 1.2" loaded length and with the 358156, it shows it to be only seated .215" into the case, so I'm guessing that you have it seated deeper to the regular crimp groove? I don't have a 358156 mold laying around, so I can't measure the nose length.
If you post your loaded length and the powder and charge you are using, I can plug it into quickload to see what your pressures might be.
Which 358 full wad cutter are you thinking of using?
MP Molds has their 359 Hammer. They say it weighs 173 gn without a HP pin. I would think a plain based design would work great given your desired velocity range. The 359 Hammer isn't a full wadcutter, but it does have a pretty fat Meplat. Accurate has a huge selection of mold designs, I would think they would have pretty much anything that you are looking for.

Good luck with your project, and keep us posted as you progress. You could always post a picture of your rifle if you wanted.

[earl54]

lar4570, been playing with 2 gr of Bullseye and Lyman wadcutter to get a small game load lately, but not much free time.Have an old Weaver 2.5x scope on the barrel now, but want to put peep sights on the barrel and turn down to the dimensions of the H&R 410 barrel.Bought 450 acres of land bordering a state management area and building a family " compound " of 4 small homes and 2 barns.Clearing land (600 yard range is included) old style homes, ect. is working into my retirement time. Will get back to my shooting/reloading/casting time soon(before hunting season). Will get my daughter to teach me to post pictures, I am kind of a luddite. Danny