45 ACP Load For Carry in Chollas

[Bile]

Well I've finally settled on the 45 ACP as my primary carry sidearm while bumming through the chollas in 110 degree sunshine. I began with the New Vaquero in 45 Colt as my first consideration, I even asked about loads over 1,000 fps. I then moved on to the short Ruger Redhawk, despite the weight, so I could shoot heavier loads than could be loaded in the New Vaquero. Of course the NM Blackhawk in 45 Colt kept coming to mind. But two things came to light during my research, first - the consensus seemed to indicated that all one really needed for adequate penetration on things that bite and shoot back in my neighborhood (southern Arizona) is a 250 grain bullet going around 900 fps, and second - I'm far more likely to encounter a pack of rabid drug smugglers than I am a hungry mountain lion or black bear. So, I threw out the single-action simply because of slow reloading concerns and because it required at least one hand working perfectly to make it fire. I then went to the Redhawk because of its double-action, and might still go there as soon as I can scrape up the needed $650 it takes to buy one. And, I finally settled on the Ruger P-90 because it can be shot without a perfectly working hand, it can be reloaded rapidly, it is strong enough to take a heavy dose of heavy loads, and they can be bought used for less than $350. Now the only thing I've got left to do is find a decent load, and here is where I need further advise.

First the bullet I'm going to use is the 230 grain Hornady Encapsulated Full Metal Jacket Flat Point (I'd like to find a cast 250 grain bullet with the same profile but haven't yet). The reason I settled on 45 caliber is that I don't want to count on a smaller bullet using some trick to make it expand - the 45 is already expanded and has enough weight to penetrate. The reason I want 230 grains (or more) and a flat point is because I'm a dedicated proponent of penetration (velocity stops - penetration kills) and am of the belief that there is no such thing as too much of this good thing.

So now velocity is the consideration. I want at least 900 fps and would like 1,000 fps, but want to avoid P+ pressures if possible. Have any of you guys loaded the 45 ACP with a FMJ bullet at around 900 fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel within standard pressures? Can it be done?

I don't have a copy of the latest Hornady loading manual or I would begin there. I've got older ones but not the new one.

If you have a load or comment on the load please let me know. And thanks, a good part of the research I've done to date took place in this forum.

[jeffquinn]

There are several good powders that will get to you 850 easily out of that 4.5 inch barrel, but going up to 900 and 1000 takes more pressure than standard ACP loads. I don't mind the high pressures, and the P-90 can certainly handle plus P, but a 230 to 250 grain piece of lead at 850 or so should handle anything that you might encounter handily.

With the current administration's feelings towards anyone who might want to hamper any illegal thugs, I would wipe clean every cartridge, and load using latex gloves, in the event that you might leave some cartridge brass laying in the desert.

Jeff

[Deleted]

Don't even get us started on the current administration Jeff I never thought we'd have anyone as bad as Carter or Clinton. But this clown is worse that those two combined.

On 45 Auto I like Herco.

[Bile]

Thanks guys. I could settle for 850 if I need to, or venture just outside the standard pressure limit.

I followed the Herco lead to Alliant Powders and they list a 230 grain load using Power Pistol that gets a bit over 900 fps. I've got a can of Power Pistol but have not used it 45 ACP (I use it in 10MM Auto), but might have to give it a try.

[dale53]

Bile;
I shoot .45 ACP's a good deal (at the rate of 5000-7500 rounds per year) but now they are done mostly in Smith 625's. I don't like to pick up brass so that let's out my 1911's for general use. Further, I enjoy using the Lyman 454424 Keith 250 gr bullet in the revolver at 900 fps. That would NOT be a good choice in an auto pistol.

I have also shot quite a few Hornady 230 gr truncated cones in my 1911's during my IPSC days. It is an excellent bullet, shoots well, but like any jacketed bullet is hard on barrels. I MUCH prefer my own cast bullets for general use. Typically, a jacketed bullet will shorten barrel life to about 5000 rounds. I have over 100,000 rounds through a 1911 barrel (with cast bullets) and it still shoots with NRA Bullseye accuracy. As you might imagine, I am a STRONG devotee of cast bullets.

Lee has a similar bullet to the Hornady jacketed. Get one of their six cavity moulds for their 452-230-TC bullet. They also have it in a tumble lubed design but I MUCH prefer a single large grease groove. I am seriously considering ordering out one of the Lee 452-230-TC moulds for my own use.

Dale53

[Bile]

Dale53, thanks for the lead. The bullet you suggest looks good, but the bullet right below it in Lee's Internet catalog looks very good, the 452-255-RF. It has the exact bullet profile I'm looking for, and with just a tad bit more weight. If I can squeeze 850 to 900 fps out of an ACP case with this bullet, I will have achieved my goal. Yee-haw!

[groo]

Groo here
Double Tap has 2 loads you might look at..
45acp +p swc hard cast at 875fps from a 5in...
45acp match 230gr rn jacket at 1010 from a 5in...
Just to try and see how your gun and hand like them --

[rWt]

Don't forget to factor in your temperatures in looking at published loading data. Your heat can easily drive up pressures beyond what you want.

[Bile]

Jun 9, 2010 18:55:07 GMT -5 rWt said:

Don't forget to factor in your temperatures in looking at published loading data. Your heat can easily drive up pressures beyond what you want.

Funny thing is I do a lot of load testing in July because it's too hot to do much else and at 112 degrees + I have the entire desert and most shooting ranges to myself. These loads will likely be tested during the summer heat. Last year I did a bunch of load testing, including chronograph work in the summer, one day it got to 117 degrees and was going well until the rain hit and I had to race the water out of the canyon. I sure hope heaven has a bit of desert in it for rats like me. ;D

[nonpcnrarn]

Try Penn 230 gr truncated cone bullets. They are a copy of the bullet developed by Jeff Cooper and the USAF before the armed forces went to the 9mm. It has a flat nose, feeds well and can be loaded to 900 fps according to the Hogdon manual.
data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

[nonpcnrarn]

Another thought is Buffalo Bore makes a 255 gr SWC 45 ACP at 925 fps. It is +P. My Springer Milspec can be set up to handle the load. Not sure about your Ruger. You might look into that.

[J Miller]

Bile,

You're over thinking the equation. The .45 ACP in it's standard 230gr FMJ ball round is a 100 years of proven combat and anti-personal performance. If you are looking for a self defense load for a semi auto you'll need no more than that basic load but with perhaps a JHP type bullet. You really don't need +P type velocities.

Your comment that a single action revolver requires at least one good hand to use but an auto doesn't is in error. All hand guns need at least one functional hand to work. Having arthritis and suffering from gout (medication induced) I've learned what happens when a hand is only partially functional. At that point you need two hands, no question about it. Ever hear of limp wristing? If your hand is only partially functional you might not have the strength to hold your bottom feeder and it stands a real good chance of jamming due to limp wristing. How are you going to shoot the first round, a P90 is DA on the first isn't it) if your hand is injured and you have no strength in the trigger finger? That's where a single or double action revolver trumps the P90 for the first shot.
Have you practiced one hand loading of a bottom feeder? It's not as easy as you think.

Jeff is right, if you're planning for SD from marauding illegal aliens leave no bullets, empties, foot prints, or tire tracks behind. SSS, or at least S_S.

Joe

[AxeHandle]

My carry type 45 ACP 1911s get GI ball straight from the original can. Sealed primers and glued in bullets are a plus in my book for a bottom feeder carry gun. Real believer in the 230 grain bullet weight for the 1911 platform. Have some 230 grain Federal hydra-shocks around here somewhere.. Did find a deal on a few thousand 230 grain FMJs from Zero a few years back.. Bought them to work up some loads for service pistol competition with a 1911. I think they still sell them...

[nonpcnrarn]

If you really want to be safe use the same weapons and ammo as the Mexican Army. If bodies are left behind, let them take the blame. ;D Also remember that a handgun is what you use until you can access your rifle. If I was wandering around in a border state where running into some really dangerous people was more reality than fantasy I would want quick access to at least an AR of some kind with 30 round mags or an M1A variant like the Springfield SOCOM or Scout/Squad rifles with 20 round mags. I know this is far afield from your original question but with things getting out of hand down there you can't take too many precautions. Being alone is not a good idea either.

[Bile]

Jun 9, 2010 19:18:48 GMT -5 nonpcnrarn said:

Try Penn 230 gr truncated cone bullets. They are a copy of the bullet developed by Jeff Cooper and the USAF before the armed forces went to the 9mm. It has a flat nose, feeds well and can be loaded to 900 fps according to the Hogdon manual.
data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

The Penn bullet you suggested looks like a real candidate and may very well end up being the bullet. Not having to cast them is a plus. Thanks for the lead.

As far as the Buffalo Bore load you mentioned, I'd really like to spend less than a $1.00 a shot for this project. Don't get me wrong, I like Buffalo Bore's cartridges and use quite a bit of them, but would like to spend just a little less for these loads.