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Post by contender on Mar 29, 2024 9:05:44 GMT -5
We do understand your remoteness. And yes,, it does present a lot of "challenges."
Another option to consider.
Maybe do a search for a spare cylinder OF IDENTICAL OAL as your current one. Or it can be a few thousands longer. If longer,, you can hone off the front "boss" section to get it to fit. I offer this because I've bought spare Ruger cylinders often. When I find a gun in need,, I have found my stash of parts has helped a lot. And in general,, so far,,, IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES the timing is just fine.
The biggest problem will be finding a NM in .44 Spl. Not a lot of those out there.
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Post by bigbore5 on Mar 29, 2024 10:47:21 GMT -5
Any weld will require recutting it on a mill Wait... you mean a Dremel and diamond files won't "cut" it? :-) I venture a guess that more owner's guns have been ruined with a Dremel than by ham-fisted newbies at gun maker's factories! Could I do it with those? Probably. But I hand fit and machine precision parts for a living. 99.9999% of the rest of the people? NOPE! I've screwed up a bunch of expensive stuff learning over the years. |
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Post by revolvercranker on Mar 29, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -5
Any weld will require recutting it on a mill Wait... you mean a Dremel and diamond files won't "cut" it? :-) I venture a guess that more owner's guns have been ruined with a Dremel than by ham-fisted newbies at gun maker's factories! gnappi, I'm laughing. I've heard that statement for more decades then care to remember. In skilled hands a Dremel is a very useful tool. It's like saying that dentist drills have ruined more teeth then cavaties. It's also a slur on people that use them. This is not picking on you, it's picking on that myth statement that has been going around on the internet for centuries! Falls right into the category that WD 40 is battery is a bad as battery acid. |
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Post by bigbore5 on Mar 29, 2024 12:37:34 GMT -5
Most of the time a novice with a Dremel is someone who is about to make some scrap metal and need an eye surgeon and some bandaids.
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Post by hunter01 on Mar 29, 2024 19:17:36 GMT -5
Yeah, if you dont have at least an associates degree from the local community college, a dremel and files are well beyond the scope of your capabilities! Rolling my eyes now.
Be like squawberry man says, "DOING"! If someone else can do it, you can do it. Think it through, take your time, and get it done.
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Post by revolvercranker on Mar 29, 2024 20:50:22 GMT -5
Let me tell you all about a cyclinder I got. I have a S&W Model 617 with a six inch barrel. That's a 22 LR rimfire revolver for those that don't know it. I called S&W and got a very nice knowledgeable woman and asked her if I could purchase a 22 Magnum cylinder for it. She yes I could and if I wanted one. I said can I just drop that into my revolver. Again she said yes and I ordered it. When I got it I swapped ount the 22LR cylinder and put the Mag cyclinder it. I carefully closed the cyclinder as I'm not a total idiot. It closed perfectly. I'm thinking GREAT! NOPE, pulling the hammer back or using the trigger would not rotate the cylinder at all. So took the Mag cylinder out and compared it to the 22LR cylinder. AHA! The ratch star was slightly different on the tips of the little spurs. I GOT MY DREMEL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and put a cut off disc in it and touched up those tips till they looked like the ones on the 22LR cylinder. Mind you I went to MIT for Dremel courses and am an expert on it. Let me explain the word expert to you all. An oil engineer I worked with at a major oil refinery asked me if I knew what the word expert meant. I said what does it mean. He said it meand 10% X and 90% spurt. Anyways put the Mag cylinder back in the revolver and it worked just great. Now I know how to check for cylinder alignment with the barrel and I checked it. All six of them were dead on. Now I have a convertible 617 Smith. I also want to mention something here that Mr Bradshaw mentioned about sending the OP's entire gun back to Ruger so they can align the new cylinder they will put it. Well aparently S&W machines things so precise that doesn't need to be done. Yes there are circumstances will it would need to be done. It didn't on my Smith.
Tony
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Post by paleroadster on Mar 30, 2024 8:34:06 GMT -5
Let me tell you all about a cyclinder I got. I have a S&W Model 617 with a six inch barrel. That's a 22 LR rimfire revolver for those that don't know it. I called S&W and got a very nice knowledgeable woman and asked her if I could purchase a 22 Magnum cylinder for it. She yes I could and if I wanted one. I said can I just drop that into my revolver. Again she said yes and I ordered it. When I got it I swapped ount the 22LR cylinder and put the Mag cyclinder it. I carefully closed the cyclinder as I'm not a total idiot. It closed perfectly. I'm thinking GREAT! NOPE, pulling the hammer back or using the trigger would not rotate the cylinder at all. So took the Mag cylinder out and compared it to the 22LR cylinder. AHA! The ratch star was slightly different on the tips of the little spurs. I GOT MY DREMEL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and put a cut off disc in it and touched up those tips till they looked like the ones on the 22LR cylinder. Mind you I went to MIT for Dremel courses and am an expert on it. Let me explain the word expert to you all. An oil engineer I worked with at a major oil refinery asked me if I knew what the word expert meant. I said what does it mean. He said it meand 10% X and 90% spurt. A friend of mine, former engineering professor at WPI, explained to me that PHD means Piled Higher and Deeper you can draw your own conclusions on what is being piled. |
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Post by contender on Mar 30, 2024 8:55:11 GMT -5
Points taken revolvercranker.
Ruger also keeps their tolerances good enough to be able to swap cylinders fairly easy. But if you ask Ruger,, they want the entire gun to check alignment & fit for liability reasons. If they do the work, they know it's right. It prevents a lawsuit.
But I have a box full of spare Ruger cylinders,, and haven't had any timing issues with any.
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Post by leadhound on Mar 31, 2024 6:09:42 GMT -5
Points taken revolvercranker. Ruger also keeps their tolerances good enough to be able to swap cylinders fairly easy. But if you ask Ruger,, they want the entire gun to check alignment & fit for liability reasons. If they do the work, they know it's right. It prevents a lawsuit. But I have a box full of spare Ruger cylinders,, and haven't had any timing issues with any. Wish they would tighten up whatever jig the use to cut them to length! |
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Post by x101airborne on Mar 31, 2024 6:45:33 GMT -5
Points taken revolvercranker. Ruger also keeps their tolerances good enough to be able to swap cylinders fairly easy. But if you ask Ruger,, they want the entire gun to check alignment & fit for liability reasons. If they do the work, they know it's right. It prevents a lawsuit. But I have a box full of spare Ruger cylinders,, and haven't had any timing issues with any. Wish they would tighten up whatever jig the use to cut them to length! THATS a danged fact. |
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Post by contender on Mar 31, 2024 10:33:33 GMT -5
I think the OAL of the cylinders is based upon the length of the barrel once it's installed. Due to the threading & fitting of the barrels,, you will get differing OAL's of cylinders.
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Post by revolvercranker on Mar 31, 2024 11:39:21 GMT -5
I think the OAL of the cylinders is based upon the length of the barrel once it's installed. Due to the threading & fitting of the barrels,, you will get differing OAL's of cylinders. I know that some of the tolerances on Sig barrels, yes I know it's a semi auto pistol, are in the tenth of a thousands. That's mighty dang close machining tolerances. I'm sorry I'm not buying what you posted and I know that you said "I think" which makes it an assumption. Not getting on you contender, just telling you what I know from inside the industry. I can tell you this too, some manufacturers when barreling a receiver have a fixture that holds the receiver and another the barrel, that is computer controlled and it spins the barrel in there really fast and stops at the correct index (well suppose to anyways). I asked an industry insider why some barrels on certain firearms are tighter then a bucks ass stretched over a barrel and that was the reply I got. Also may account for why some Smith front sights aren't dead 12 o'clock. Today the industry is trying to achieve a final product without any hand fitting. Hand fitting costs money. |
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Post by hunter01 on Mar 31, 2024 17:16:38 GMT -5
I think the OAL of the cylinders is based upon the length of the barrel once it's installed. Due to the threading & fitting of the barrels,, you will get differing OAL's of cylinders. Well, it think you are probably right. We all know fitting could be accomplished by shortening the barrel tenon or by shortening the cylinder boss. Which is faster, cheaper, or easier? Thats likely the method they use. Now, with current CNC capability it would be simple to make every barrel tenon and cylinder basically identical. That leaves the investment cast frame as the possible culprit. They likely machine the frame first which dictates the dimensions of one or both other components. |
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DutchV
.30 Stingray
Posts: 157
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Post by DutchV on Apr 3, 2024 11:40:12 GMT -5
I think the OAL of the cylinders is based upon the length of the barrel once it's installed. Due to the threading & fitting of the barrels,, you will get differing OAL's of cylinders. I know that some of the tolerances on Sig barrels, yes I know it's a semi auto pistol, are in the tenth of a thousands. That's mighty dang close machining tolerances. I'm sorry I'm not buying what you posted and I know that you said "I think" which makes it an assumption. Not getting on you contender, just telling you what I know from inside the industry. I can tell you this too, some manufacturers when barreling a receiver have a fixture that holds the receiver and another the barrel, that is computer controlled and it spins the barrel in there really fast and stops at the correct index (well suppose to anyways). I asked an industry insider why some barrels on certain firearms are tighter then a bucks ass stretched over a barrel and that was the reply I got. Also may account for why some Smith front sights aren't dead 12 o'clock. Today the industry is trying to achieve a final product without any hand fitting. Hand fitting costs money. I assumed that Ruger was installing barrels by hand. I've definitely seen a couple that weren't clocked correctly, and had the rear sight cranked way over to compensate. |
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Post by potatojudge on Apr 3, 2024 12:31:37 GMT -5
For Ruger I'm sure it all comes down to the order of operations and efficiency.
Cast and machine frame, including barrel threads. Make cylinders. Cut and thread barrel, install sights, roll mark, and install ejector rod.
Of those the barrel has the most components that are reliant on being first fit to a gun, and the frame has to be machined already to do that. Seems like it leaves the cylinder for last, and I can imagine barrel tenon lengths being variable for manufacturing reasons so trimming a cylinder to fit would mean taking the time to chuck it up again, zero runout, then cut it.
It'd be nice if a barreled frame could be measured digitally and that data be automatically exported to the CNC mill as a cylinder was being machined, and the CNC then knows to cut the gas ring and barrel face to fit.
Lots of things are possible, but Rugers don't really have any competition in their part of the market and people buy them.
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