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Post by lockhart on Feb 19, 2024 15:48:07 GMT -5
Well, this was a waste of my reading time! Damn, some people are just HARD HEADED!
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 19, 2024 15:52:59 GMT -5
People disagree over at cast boolits, but not like here. Maybe on guy in particular, but they don't gang up like here. They don't tolerate being rude to other members. I got one infraction there.... and you guys would have booted out real quick.
As far as shooters weather they have high dollar guns or not.... I'm not looking to shoot like them, I just want to group at least. And I KNOW it's not me. This isn't my first hand gun. 25 yards isn't asking alot out of a revolver. My 357 4 inch Taurus shot a four inch group off hand standing with .001 over casts with a pretty stout load, tangent sights, but this Ruger off a rest was as I described, crap. And I know it ain't me. We'll see how groove diameter jacketed bullets do with peep sights. If it's better than it shot before, at least group, then I'll tweek the load, powder change. If not then I can blame me. Drop down to 44 SPL loads.
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weiler
.30 Stingray
Posts: 423
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Post by weiler on Feb 19, 2024 16:33:30 GMT -5
Just curious, 4” group at what distance?
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Odin
.327 Meteor
Posts: 972
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Post by Odin on Feb 19, 2024 16:38:44 GMT -5
Just curious, 4” group at what distance? (whispering) 25 yards.
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Odin
.327 Meteor
Posts: 972
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Post by Odin on Feb 19, 2024 16:40:01 GMT -5
I'm beginning to believe that actually, we all agree.
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Post by webber on Feb 19, 2024 16:43:43 GMT -5
People disagree over at cast boolits, but not like here. Maybe on guy in particular, but they don't gang up like here. They don't tolerate being rude to other members. I got one infraction there.... and you guys would have booted out real quick. As far as shooters weather they have high dollar guns or not.... I'm not looking to shoot like them, I just want to group at least. And I KNOW it's not me. This isn't my first hand gun. 25 yards isn't asking alot out of a revolver. My 357 4 inch Taurus shot a four inch group off hand standing with .001 over casts with a pretty stout load, tangent sights, but this Ruger off a rest was as I described, crap. And I know it ain't me. We'll see how groove diameter jacketed bullets do with peep sights. If it's better than it shot before, at least group, then I'll tweek the load, powder change. If not then I can blame me. Drop down to 44 SPL loads. They would love you on 24hourcampfire.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 19, 2024 17:48:10 GMT -5
People disagree over at cast boolits, but not like here. Maybe on guy in particular, but they don't gang up like here. They don't tolerate being rude to other members. I got one infraction there.... and you guys would have booted out real quick. As far as shooters weather they have high dollar guns or not.... I'm not looking to shoot like them, I just want to group at least. And I KNOW it's not me. This isn't my first hand gun. 25 yards isn't asking alot out of a revolver. My 357 4 inch Taurus shot a four inch group off hand standing with .001 over casts with a pretty stout load, tangent sights, but this Ruger off a rest was as I described, crap. And I know it ain't me. We'll see how groove diameter jacketed bullets do with peep sights. If it's better than it shot before, at least group, then I'll tweek the load, powder change. If not then I can blame me. Drop down to 44 SPL loads. They would love you on 24hourcampfire. Was on there..... they're a bunch of clowns. They left me alone after awhile. I knew I could get away burying their BS. Some guys were ok, most are really clueless. Here you have some valid points, but mostly over there you can see right through them. If I said I like using Redding shell holders at .002 increments, I got bashed to bits that they don't work. One guy couldn't let it go. It sets back shoulders .002 at a time and it does. It works. But some how some way he kept trying to trash them. His ego was his only ultimatum. Screw 24 hour campfire. So far castboolits is it, only because of the tight moderation.
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Post by webber on Feb 19, 2024 19:16:15 GMT -5
44mag. I sent you a PM.
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 19, 2024 19:55:42 GMT -5
44mag, do you realize that you have been talking to a multi-time world champion, professional shooters, world record holders, and professional gunsmiths? Or that you have been given the opportunity to learn from some of the true legends of the handgun world? True many of the members here are not on that skill level. However I would wager that the average shooter on this site far out classes those you find on the other sites. Often times here we do disagree due to different shooting styles or experiences. But usually we take the time to think through what is said by people responding with advice based upon actual experience rather than empty theory. If you already know all the answers, then why are you asking experts?
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ideal
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 69
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Post by ideal on Feb 19, 2024 20:19:23 GMT -5
They would love you on 24hourcampfire. Was on there..... they're a bunch of clowns. They left me alone after awhile. I knew I could get away burying their BS. Some guys were ok, most are really clueless. Here you have some valid points, but mostly over there you can see right through them. If I said I like using Redding shell holders at .002 increments, I got bashed to bits that they don't work. One guy couldn't let it go. It sets back shoulders .002 at a time and it does. It works. But some how some way he kept trying to trash them. His ego was his only ultimatum. Screw 24 hour campfire. So far castboolits is it, only because of the tight moderation. I thought OP sounded familiar but I couldn't quite place him. The "boolits" angle and the Taurus give it away.
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Post by webber on Feb 19, 2024 21:10:53 GMT -5
44mag. I sent another PM.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 19, 2024 23:31:39 GMT -5
44mag , do you realize that you have been talking to a multi-time world champion, professional shooters, world record holders, and professional gunsmiths? Or that you have been given the opportunity to learn from some of the true legends of the handgun world? True many of the members here are not on that skill level. However I would wager that the average shooter on this site far out classes those you find on the other sites. Often times here we do disagree due to different shooting styles or experiences. But usually we take the time to think through what is said by people responding with advice based upon actual experience rather than empty theory. If you already know all the answers, then why are you asking experts? I ask questions with what I'm doing with this pistol... with an undersized bore. Wondering if there is other issues with the gun from where I read else where, and talked to other people about other issues it may have. Throats being the same diameter as the groove diameter.... controversy?? Or Forcing cone angle being more improves accuracy.... Or one doesn't believe barrel dimensions matter but he hones throats for uniformity, x gunsmith, who uses a Sunnen automotive honing machine. If the bullet is oversized it will get swaged in the barrel, so who cares about throat uniformity ? Kinda getting where I'm coming from ?
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Post by shphntr on Feb 20, 2024 1:03:48 GMT -5
This is like a train wreck. I know it will end badly but I can't look away.
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 20, 2024 4:11:48 GMT -5
44mag , do you realize that you have been talking to a multi-time world champion, professional shooters, world record holders, and professional gunsmiths? Or that you have been given the opportunity to learn from some of the true legends of the handgun world? True many of the members here are not on that skill level. However I would wager that the average shooter on this site far out classes those you find on the other sites. Often times here we do disagree due to different shooting styles or experiences. But usually we take the time to think through what is said by people responding with advice based upon actual experience rather than empty theory. If you already know all the answers, then why are you asking experts? I ask questions with what I'm doing with this pistol... with an undersized bore. Wondering if there is other issues with the gun from where I read else where, and talked to other people about other issues it may have. Throats being the same diameter as the groove diameter.... controversy?? Or Forcing cone angle being more improves accuracy.... Or one doesn't believe barrel dimensions matter but he hones throats for uniformity, x gunsmith, who uses a Sunnen automotive honing machine. If the bullet is oversized it will get swaged in the barrel, so who cares about throat uniformity ? Kinda getting where I'm coming from ? If you are talking about Doug at Cylinder Hone, he's done the throats on several of my guns. So has Fermin Garza (2dogs on this site). Both do excellent work. In each case, the cylinder throats were inconsistent in size and undersized. This not only caused leading with cast bullets, it also affected the accuracy of the gun due to the lack of conformity. Any variation affects accuracy. After having the throat sizes corrected, accuracy greatly improved. The throats are cut to .001"-.002" over bore diameter. If the particular gun requires it, I will also recut the forcing cone to a short 11° angle. What this does is create a funnel effect, guiding the bullet from the cylinder to the bore. It swages the bullet as it transitions to perfectly fit and seal the bore without any abrupt changes that can unevenly distort the bullet, which would effect it's balance and throw off accuracy. With cast bullets, any gas blowing by the bullet will cause severe leading. Jacketed bullets don't really have this problem since the jacket prevents the hot gasses from melting off the lead. As long as a jacketed bullet well engages the rifling in the barrel, it can provide superb accuracy even if slightly undersized.
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44mag
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 77
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Post by 44mag on Feb 20, 2024 7:08:09 GMT -5
I ask questions with what I'm doing with this pistol... with an undersized bore. Wondering if there is other issues with the gun from where I read else where, and talked to other people about other issues it may have. Throats being the same diameter as the groove diameter.... controversy?? Or Forcing cone angle being more improves accuracy.... Or one doesn't believe barrel dimensions matter but he hones throats for uniformity, x gunsmith, who uses a Sunnen automotive honing machine. If the bullet is oversized it will get swaged in the barrel, so who cares about throat uniformity ? Kinda getting where I'm coming from ? If you are talking about Doug at Cylinder Hone, he's done the throats on several of my guns. So has Fermin Garza (2dogs on this site). Both do excellent work. In each case, the cylinder throats were inconsistent in size and undersized. This not only caused leading with cast bullets, it also affected the accuracy of the gun due to the lack of conformity. Any variation affects accuracy. After having the throat sizes corrected, accuracy greatly improved. The throats are cut to .001"-.002" over bore diameter. If the particular gun requires it, I will also recut the forcing cone to a short 11° angle. What this does is create a funnel effect, guiding the bullet from the cylinder to the bore. It swages the bullet as it transitions to perfectly fit and seal the bore without any abrupt changes that can unevenly distort the bullet, which would effect it's balance and throw off accuracy. With cast bullets, any gas blowing by the bullet will cause severe leading. Jacketed bullets don't really have this problem since the jacket prevents the hot gasses from melting off the lead. As long as a jacketed bullet well engages the rifling in the barrel, it can provide superb accuracy even if slightly undersized. The forcing cone does not cause a funnel effect, according to Doug, and here's his response on the forum.....about bullet misalignment in regards to the shoulder on a cast from another poster..... Basically another was saying a cast with a shoulder is a no no..... And Doug didn't even comment about the bullet design, just to let the gun do it's job in was originally designed to do in the first place. As far as your top dogs on here... ? Well What can I say, they found a way that suits them, and I'm glad for them, but it doesn't mean everybody is on board with the same ways.
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