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Post by bigbrowndog on Feb 10, 2024 15:40:36 GMT -5
I think you’ve mistaken what I was trying to say, and I apologize if I said it in manner that caused the misunderstanding. I always prefer two holes, even with a 357, and I was only saying that if you are hunting in an area where recovery could be difficult or an animal lost alter your aim to avoid that possibility. I too spend my time on hands and knees crawling thru brushy tunnels looking for pigs. The 230gr. Wadcutter I use is because it has the widest meplat and penetrates like a mother, not because I want it to remain inside. I applaud your thorough testing and judging from your posts you are on the way to building the confidence you desire.
Trapr
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Post by hunter01 on Feb 10, 2024 15:47:09 GMT -5
Im sorry for being so defensive. Its a nasty habit i need to break!
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Post by boolitdesigner on Feb 10, 2024 15:59:39 GMT -5
I see all these stories about not using hollow points and expecting penetration. There is an option I see very little said about. I’ve used it since 1991 with the 357 and other minor calibers. First, it’s a copy of an old partitioned rifle bullet. The hollow point is ment to expand and shed the hollow point petals, then the rough faced base drives the rest of the way through the animal and out. The expanding hollow point, whether it’s the cup, penta or large hollow point ( dependent on animal size and toughness) does the organ destruction in the first 10” or so, then the base portion left from the hollow points loss drives on thru. These don’t stop in deer ( nice big grain fed heavy deer) whether a side shot or length wise. I’ve shot a lot of deer proving this to myself. So, what this is a Nosler Partition in a cast handgun bullet put out by MP molds. It works and will probably do just fine water dropped for Magnams. I know it does for me.
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 11, 2024 4:56:35 GMT -5
Booletdesigner does indeed have some impressive designs with the MP molds. The more I experimented with the 640 design, the more I like it.
However, I am concerned using a penta hollow pointed bullet on game. I worry about the petals not all shearing off together. If it only looses it's petals more to one side, it seems like the bullet path would curve to the side that retains it's petals. Has anyone had this happen?
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Post by hunter01 on Feb 11, 2024 8:48:16 GMT -5
Booletdesigner does indeed have some impressive designs with the MP molds. The more I experimented with the 640 design, the more I like it. However, I am concerned using a penta hollow pointed bullet on game. I worry about the petals not all shearing off together. If it only looses it's petals more to one side, it seems like the bullet path would curve to the side that retains it's petals. Has anyone had this happen? I will say, this heavy 640 is very accurate. What you are sayimg about remaining petals steering the bullet makes perfect sense, but any nose deformation or a traditional mushroom that isn't symmetrical should have the same effect perhaps to a lesser degree. Thoughts? |
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 11, 2024 9:27:25 GMT -5
 This photo shows that they tend to not shed the petals with softer lead that's been powder coated even at 1200fps impact |
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,664
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Post by Fowler on Feb 11, 2024 10:23:31 GMT -5
This photo shows that they tend to not shed the petals with softer lead that's been powder coated even at 1200fps impact What medium were you shooting those into testing? I have noticed it seems to be easier to get a perfectly consistent hex cavity over round ones. Just curious but it would appear you got your alloy right for the velo tested. |
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Post by boolitdesigner on Feb 11, 2024 10:57:05 GMT -5
The penta occurred due to user wants. It was a mid length round hollow point. I don’t use anything but the large hollow point myself. The autopsies in game animals show what it did…. besides outright killing it. I depend on alloy and water dropping to secure performance. That has involved short (where I can toss the gun and hit it) to some quite long range kills. I can test any of these bullets to very high velocities or make them go very slow out of some very old black powder little cartridges to test performance. Believe me when I say having the petal chunks leave the bullet increases performance. Don’t have too much concern about non loss of petals, the side that hits first will loose them first. Not all bullets hit a target square.
The bullet descriptions don’t really relate what the nose design is… that is they don’t have the “640” designator in the name or look like it either, but it is there. Ask and I will tell you what it is.
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Post by hgunhtr on Feb 11, 2024 15:38:14 GMT -5
ok asking what bullet is it
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 11, 2024 18:01:25 GMT -5
@booletdesigner, just curious if you designed my hands down favorite game bullet and if it's of the 640-type, the MP 512-525?
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 11, 2024 18:04:17 GMT -5
This photo shows that they tend to not shed the petals with softer lead that's been powder coated even at 1200fps impact What medium were you shooting those into testing? I have noticed it seems to be easier to get a perfectly consistent hex cavity over round ones. Just curious but it would appear you got your alloy right for the velo tested. Those bullets are hunting retrievals. 357 and 45. I'm not the one who fired all those. |
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Post by boolitdesigner on Feb 11, 2024 21:38:50 GMT -5
@booletdesigner, just curious if you designed my hands down favorite game bullet and if it's of the 640-type, the MP 512-525? Yes, I did design this and it is of the 640 type nose style. It did take me a while to find it as I have a very large records file. |
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Post by boolitdesigner on Feb 11, 2024 21:40:29 GMT -5
ok asking what bullet is it Please, a little more detail as there are a load of designs out there. |
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Post by messybear on Feb 11, 2024 22:16:56 GMT -5
Booletdesigner does indeed have some impressive designs with the MP molds. The more I experimented with the 640 design, the more I like it. However, I am concerned using a penta hollow pointed bullet on game. I worry about the petals not all shearing off together. If it only looses it's petals more to one side, it seems like the bullet path would curve to the side that retains it's petals. Has anyone had this happen? I have recovered some that did. Didn’t seem to alter path much. I thought too that it would probably travel in a crooked path. 2 different animals- 1 st a good size whitetail buck shot in right rear quarter at 45 yd with a 436 gr penta 1/2 and 1/2 alloy out of 500 L at 1220 fps. It was a quick and hasty decision on last day of season. I thought what have I done? I just shot a deer in The a_ _ with a hollow point! Well he disappears from sight at the shot. I quickly beat it over there expecting to see him running off. No sign of him. Start taking my time looking the steep hillside over and found him in short brush mostly just down hill and a bit forward of last spot I saw him. He wasn’t going anywhere but as he struggled a bit I dumped another one broad side into his shoulder for insurance. Upon reaching him, I noticed a lump in front of shoulder. I cut it out and lo and behold there was the slug from first shot. Had two petals missing. The one from second shot extited as one would expect. Upon butchering, I traced path of both. First one entered rear quarter 2-3” from vent. It left a 2” hole through the whole quarter and one petal was near the femur that was shattered badly. It continued into body cavity and cut off two ribs in front end and went trough shoulder and stopped on hide. It lost the second petal on the ribs. Apparently quite straight path to the front of animal. Second one similar except I didn’t hit the femur and penetration considerably less with one petal missing from hitting ribs in a length way path. This bullet was same alloy but going 1320 fps. More damage but less overall penetration. Same straight path from what I could tell. |
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Post by bigbore5 on Feb 11, 2024 22:42:10 GMT -5
@booletdesigner, just curious if you designed my hands down favorite game bullet and if it's of the 640-type, the MP 512-525? Yes, I did design this and it is of the 640 type nose style. It did take me a while to find it as I have a very large records file. I had thought so. That's a wonderful bullet. I have yet to recover one from game. The large hp leaves impressive exits on deer, the small hp does so as well on blackbear. I get great performance from that design in 357 and 45 as well. |
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