New 357 bullet testing

[hunter01]

I just received a new MP 359-640 SOLID mold and wanted to test it on flesh and bone. My inlaws and my oldest son wanted some pork so Ive been after the hogs again this week. This is #4 for the week but the first with this new bullet. I knew i wanted to push them hard so these were water dropped from the mold and water dropped again from the oven after PC. They weigh 169gr out of the mold with my mystery alloy consisting go coww and range scrap. These were Loaded over a book max of AA9 and shot out of my 7.5" BFR. Shot was 50yds and landed a couple inches above hold point. Makes sense because im sighted an inch high at 25yds. Pig fell at the shot and ran a couple circles on its side before going still. When i walked up to her, she was still breathing so a shot behind the ear ended it. The pig was angled a lot harder than i had thought and bullet was found under the skin on the off side mid section. I cut it out with my knife and noticed it had expanded well. Something i didnt really anticipate being quenched twice. The shot through the head entered behind the ear and came out the opposite cheek before burrying several inches in wet soil on the other side. It expanded even more and appears to have shed quite a bit of weight. Good sized hog but didnt weigh a lot due to being drawn down by piglets. They had been weaned or abandoned as they werent in the group.
I see no reason to used anything other than the 200gr rcbs solid at this point if it will give comparable expansion. It most definitely drives much deeper than this bullet.

ENTRANCE

WHERE I CUT BULLET FROM HIDE

ENTRANCE BEHIND EAR

EXIT IN CHEEK

RECOVERED BULLETS

[Fowler]

Well it behaved as it should. The heavier bullet certainly should penetrate deeper than a lighter but the lighter seemed to work fine. I don’t know I’d give up in this one yet. Maybe test it in a few dozen more and report back.

Dirty job but someone has to do it.

[hunter01]

It did behave as it should, but 2 holes are always better than one and im very confident the 200gr would have given 2 holes. Ill try to cast up some 200gr solids tonight and put them to work asap.

[bigbrowndog]

Agree with Fowler it’s hard to argue with success. Further testing is required, different angles, bigger pigs, or farther ranges. In a 357mag I prefer heavier and an exit, my tests show that even an expanded 357 bullet leaves a relatively small exit wound, so much depends on the damage done inside the animal. To hope for an exit with a 357 only leaves you with a .5 inch hole at best. Not much for blood to leak from especially when fat, meat, and skin plug it.
In my 357, I use a wadcutter weighing 230gr. an exit is “almost” guaranteed on most pigs weighing less than 200#, but the hole is small, so I rely on its breaking bone and penetrating power to do its job. Consequently, I’ve stopped relying on 357mag for a stopping round for pigs, hunting is another matter all together.
Trapr

[Fowler]

I have a 180gr LBT mold that is basically a twin if the heavy bullet Buff Bore uses for their Outdoorsman’s Load. I promise it would penetrate and penetrate, certainly would be a bullet for pigs however I don’t know it will kill as dramatically as a cast hollowpoint will. But failure is a lot less likely.

Having all the pigs you can stand would be a great testing problem to work through. The reality is every animal is different.

Also my old buddy Ashley Emerson loves chasing trophy hogs is a different beast than a regular 80-120lb is. A 300 pound hog has a huge, thick gristle shield that tears up tough jacketed bullets. He is hell bent on carrying heavy for caliber, super hard, solid cast bullets and loads them in his Garrett Cartridges of Texas ammo.

I guess my point is that you might have to be wise with what loads you have in your gun and what animal you choose to shoot.

[bigbrowndog]

Which is why I stopped carrying anything that didn’t start with a 4 in the caliber size when crawling into the brush after pigs. I personally prefer .45 or .5 as a starting point, when you are on your knees in the brush you just don’t know which part youll have presented, front, back or side. My .51’s see a lot of use, my .45’s se a bit. But I do like the mental comfort of my .51’s, knowing I have more than I need and everything rests on my ability and composure is comforting when visual distance is measured in feet not yards.

Trapr

[hgunhtr]

well chuck your back at it again. I've shot a few hogs with the 44's in solids and never had a problem with pass through, although not all were recovered. You were really killing the snot out of them with the HP's a change to solids will be determined with more testing. your gonna be an expert in 357 ballistics on live flesh before this is all done. looking forward to hear about the 200 solids.

[ideal]

I don't believe 400 degrees for 20 minutes is enough heat, or enough time to heat treat your bullets. Do you have a bhn tester? I'd suggest heating some of your uncoated bullets, even a reject to the same temps and the same time and quenching it. Then wait a couple of weeks and test for hardness. I have the dual crimp groove NOE version of this bullet, as well as an LBT 180 gr. LFN and really believe your bullet should have worked.

When I heat-treat bullets I aim to heat the bullets to a temp just below the point where the heat in the oven makes the bullet slump, or start to melt which take some research and practice. I control my PC/Heat-treat oven with a PID so I can get better all around temp control. I let the bullets heat soak for about an hour before dropping them in the cold water quench. I age my heat-treated bullets for 2-4 weeks before retesting hardness & loading them to go hunting.

[bigbore5]

Max data for the bullet will depend on when the manual was made. Prior to 2009, max pressure was 45,000cup, after it was reduced to 35,000. So your max load would be 13.5gr or 12.8grs. Which data did you use so we will know the velocity.

[hunter01]

Feb 10, 2024 6:28:55 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

Max data for the bullet will depend on when the manual was made. Prior to 2009, max pressure was 45,000cup, after it was reduced to 35,000. So your max load would be 13.5gr or 12.8grs. Which data did you use so we will know the velocity.

13.5gr is where these are at. I have a chrono but its very hard to set up outside a second story "shooting range"!😂
Ill run some through the chrono along with my 16gr h110 200rcbs loads to see exactly where everything is at.

[hunter01]

Feb 9, 2024 23:05:47 GMT -5 hgunhtr said:

well chuck your back at it again. I've shot a few hogs with the 44's in solids and never had a problem with pass through, although not all were recovered. You were really killing the snot out of them with the HP's a change to solids will be determined with more testing. your gonna be an expert in 357 ballistics on live flesh before this is all done. looking forward to hear about the 200 solids.

I may never have even bothered with the HP had i known this kind of expansion was possible with solids. 2 holes are ALWAYS better than one in my opinion. You know the country around here. If something makes it to the canyons without a blood trail, chances of recovery are dramatically reduced.

[hgunhtr]

Yep lost 4 into the canyons while hunting down there. 3 with my 44 special with solids and one with dawns 7-08. the rifle shot was just bad, facing straight on and only got one shoulder. the 44 special were through and through. saw the dirt fly up behind the hog and had blood on both sides. got to the canyons and game over. only went down there the first time and then after that i decided that it wasnt worth it. man those are deep and rough. would have had to take it apart in the bottoms and carried it out in pieces and even then would have been a tough go. Ill stick to my 44's and HP's. i am seeing a pattern of dead critters with it. As you once told me " there is no replacement for displacement" I hope the 200's solids are going to perform for you. Truthfully, I thought the 200 HP's were doing what most 357's couldn't do.

[hunter01]

Feb 10, 2024 11:28:55 GMT -5 hgunhtr said:

Yep lost 4 into the canyons while hunting down there. 3 with my 44 special with solids and one with dawns 7-08. the rifle shot was just bad, facing straight on and only got one shoulder. the 44 special were through and through. saw the dirt fly up behind the hog and had blood on both sides. got to the canyons and game over. only went down there the first time and then after that i decided that it wasnt worth it. man those are deep and rough. would have had to take it apart in the bottoms and carried it out in pieces and even then would have been a tough go. Ill stick to my 44's and HP's. i am seeing a pattern of dead critters with it. As you once told me " there is no replacement for displacement" I hope the 200's solids are going to perform for you. Truthfully, I thought the 200 HP's were doing what most 357's couldn't do.

The 200gr HP performs admirably no doubt.

[bigbrowndog]

The high shoulder shines when running off 50-75 yards puts them in virtually unrecoverable terrain. Your bullet doesn’t need to change, only your point of aim. High shoulder or in front of shoulder and middle of neck, those two spots are where the spine lives.

Trapr

[hunter01]

Feb 10, 2024 13:01:24 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

The high shoulder shines when running off 50-75 yards puts them in virtually unrecoverable terrain. Your bullet doesn’t need to change, only your point of aim. High shoulder or in front of shoulder and middle of neck, those two spots are where the spine lives.

Trapr

I respect your opinion and your experience, but im no rookie to this. Ive HUNTED as many hogs as anyone i know of. Im not talking about killing them in traps or shooting them at night with thermals, im talking crawling through tunnels on hands and knees and wading through quicksand slews, HUNTING them. Ive killed them with everything you can imagine including dozens with self made longbows. All of my recent posts are about me getting confidence back in the 357 that i used to adore but fell out of love with when i transitioned to cast bullets. In the last few weeks ive killed 10 or more from every conceivable angle i could get them to present me. I could have just as easily spined a bunch of these hogs and dropped them on the spot, but Im testing these bullets before im faced with the buck of a lifetime and wondering if i have enough gun. You prefer a 230gr wadcutter. Wouldnt be my first, second, or tenth choice, but it works for you and the way you hunt. I like 2 holes, this way, that way, coming and going. You dont care about 2 holes with the 357 because they are small holes. To me that makes them all that more valuable! I may just be asking too much of the little 357, but from what ive seen of 200gr rcbs bullet, its just more of a good thing.