Just Testing Bullets

[x101airborne]

Pen trapped 4 small hogs yesterday evening and this morning I tested some Norma MHP 45 ACP 175 gr. 1053 fps factory ammo. The biggest hog went 70 pounds, the other 3 were under 50 pounds. Distance to target was less than 8 feet. I intentionally aimed for shoulder / leg joints. Tougher bones the better as long as it is a quick kill. There are still two sets of ribs and another leg / shoulder joint to go through. 4 rounds fired, two slugs recovered. None lost any weight. One actually shows 5 grains heavier with the tissue still in some grooves. Shots fired from a Tisas US Army 1911-A1. Nice of Norma to stamp an "N" on the back of the bullet so you know you are getting a Norma bullet.

Anyone want to volunteer to post a pic for me?
Need a cell number please.
 

[revolvercranker]

I'm posting Trey's bullet picture for him.

[hgunhtr]

great expansion

[x101airborne]

I was surprised these didn't penetrate more to be honest. Even though I intentionally put them through the hardest bones possible, the petals are still slightly coned forward. Penetration was only about 5 inches at most. Great so if you are unlucky and have to use them in a crowded environment you dont have to worry too much about what is behind your target. I really wonder what a couple of these bullets would do out of a 460 Rowland or a 45 Winchester Magnum. I think I am going to pull about 10 bullets and load them to different levels and do some more testing. For now though I will carry with confidence knowing that out of a full length 1911 they will work great. I also want to get my Colt Officers ACP (the shortest barrel 45 Auto I own) and give them a test with the shorter barrel. I wonder what the lower velocity will do or not do.

[bula]

Interesting stuff ! Thanks.

[hunter01]

That is a wicked looking bullet. 5" of penetration is pretty dismal though. I know you were going for big bones, but those size critters dont really have BIG bones. Thats looking at it from a hunters perspective. Im very interested in your chrono data when you start testing.

[x101airborne]

Feb 7, 2024 9:18:43 GMT -5 hunter01 said:

That is a wicked looking bullet. 5" of penetration is pretty dismal though. I know you were going for big bones, but those size critters dont really have BIG bones. Thats looking at it from a hunters perspective. Im very interested in your chrono data when you start testing.

"Pretty dismal" is what I was thinking. One thing for sure and for certain, even with a pair of heavy needle nose pliers you are NOT pulling that bullet out of a carcass through the hole it went in. I had to use a hatchet and a 3 pound shop hammer to cut the ribs open and go digging even though I could feel and grab the bullet base with the pliers. 

I do like the black nickel cases. When Hornady was making them I wish I had bought more of them. 

[revolvercranker]

Feb 7, 2024 8:55:21 GMT -5 x101airborne said:

I was surprised these didn't penetrate more to be honest. Even though I intentionally put them through the hardest bones possible, the petals are still slightly coned forward. Penetration was only about 5 inches at most. Great so if you are unlucky and have to use them in a crowded environment you dont have to worry too much about what is behind your target. I really wonder what a couple of these bullets would do out of a 460 Rowland or a 45 Winchester Magnum. I think I am going to pull about 10 bullets and load them to different levels and do some more testing. For now though I will carry with confidence knowing that out of a full length 1911 they will work great. I also want to get my Colt Officers ACP (the shortest barrel 45 Auto I own) and give them a test with the shorter barrel. I wonder what the lower velocity will do or not do.

Trey when my friend Arnie Brennen was designing his 45 Raptor he called me about some advice on what 45 bullets to use. He was thinking about testing the GI 230 grain hardball. I said NO NO NO NO.  His cartridge could hit the high 2000 fps area and told him that the 230 grain hardball wasn't designed for that. I went on to tell him that were are not category levels for 45 caliber pistol bullets since the advent of the 454 Casull and others and the manufacturers tell you which bullets NOT to use in very high velocity 45's.  You need to find out what that Norma bullet is rated for. 

[Fowler]

These bullets are obviously designed for 2 legged issues and not 4 legged ones. I certainly would like to see a bit more penetration, I am thinking of a large 2 legged problem (250lb+) or one wearing a couple thick layers of winter clothing and the gut feeling we might not be getting very far into the problem. I run 230gr in my 45acp guns for self defense work, not saying they are better than these lighter faster loads but they give me more confidence in my old school mind.

My mind always goes back to big game hunting, I carry a gun/load for the largest animal not the most likely animal. If I have a elk tag and a deer tag I certainly carry a elk load and deal with a heavier than necessary load for the deer...

[potatojudge]

Thanks for putting in the work of showing us these.

It's been hard to know what to make of the new Norma at their very reasonable price points.

[hgunhtr]

Trey,
In my experience (31 years in Law Enforcement) you have a "get off me round" designed for positive expansion without over penetration. Back in 2015 or so my department purchased Kahr .40 cal pistols for our officers as backup off duty guns. we were carrying Hornady critical duty rounds for our full size guns. A call to Scott at Hornady pointed us to the critical defense round for the Kahrs as it was developed for short barreled carry guns. Maximum expansion and terminal energy transfer without over penetration issues. If I remember correctly, 9" of penetration in ballistic gel was their goal. He coined the phrase "get off me round" as a close quarters defensive round. I have been using the stuff since then in all my small guns for concealed carry, while working protection details and security work at church. Not all contracting work is created equal and sometimes it is necessary to change the ammo to be mission specific, however, day in and day out I carry get off me rounds. I have shot multiple critters with that round as that is what is at hand, and they have killed with authority. Haven't gotten a pass through while finishing off quite a few car hit deer but once and it appeared to have missed ribs on both sides on a yearling deer. If I shot the shoulders, I never got a pass through.
let us know how the ballistics testing goes with those bullets and the higher velocities.
It will be interesting to see what happens when they are pushed harder and hit bone.