More 357 bullet testing

[hunter01]

7.5" bfr 357
Holosun 403 gold dot
MP 200gr rcbs with large hp pins
15.5 wc820

I have given the hogs a rest for several days and it just seems more and more are showing up. This group had 40+- in it woth most being 100+ lbs. From the time i pulled into the farm until thw shot was less than 10min. I got on the atv and headed out to make a loop. Within 2 or 3 minutes i spotted this group of hogs on the edge of some johnson grass. When they heard the atv they started heading toward the canyons so i parked and ran qround to get in front of them. I eased up over a terrace and they were still 100yds out but moving my way. I started looking for a good size sow for the freezer and once i had the one i wanted i just focused on her. They were pretty intent on making it to the canyons so they werent staying still much at all, even for pigs. When they were 60 yds away i attempted to squeeze off a shot but she moved before the trigger broke causing me to reset my hold amd rest. I attempted a second shot when she paused but again she moved before the shot broke causing me to reset. Finally at 50yds she paused long enough to shoot. At the shot, the group scattered with most going to my left and into the canyons. A big boar went straight away from me and made a BIG loop to catch up with the others, and this girl went to my right making her easy to follow. I could see a good amount of blood on her sode before she reached the brush line and i noticed it was a little high and a little back from where i would prefer, but i intentionally wanted to stay off the shoulder to see what kind of expansion i would get with little resistance, and when pressured, i often revert back to center mass shooting. Something i need to work on and i am getting better. I picked up the trail where i last saw her and there was good blood and easy tracks to follow in the moist soil. I expected to walk up on her around every bush, but it ended up being about 350yds from the shot to where i found her. There was a lot of blood where she had fallen and no evidence of struggle so i think she died on her feet in stride. Anyway, entrance and exit wounds were almost identical so i dont think there was much if any expansion. I feel the shot most likely hit the top back edge of the lungs. I think I either need the shoulders to initiate expansion with this bullet or i need to start looking at other options with a decent meplate. I do appreciate two holes, but id really prefer one of them to be over .360! Close up pick is exit. Finger is pointed to entrance.

[bigbrowndog]

Well speaking of 357 bullet testing miss Sherry used my 357max this evening to take a nice adult whitetail doe at 97yards, she almost got it on video but forgot to switch the camera angle from backward to forward. So she got audio with a picture of the back window of her stand. Still made a great shot and doe ran 40 yards and piled up in the huisache. 180xtp at 1500fps, I know it’s not your cast bullet but it is a 357.

Trapr

[hunter01]

Jan 31, 2024 21:16:13 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

Well speaking of 357 bullet testing miss Sherry used my 357max this evening to take a nice adult whitetail doe at 97yards, she almost got it on video but forgot to switch the camera angle from backward to forward. So she got audio with a picture of the back window of her stand. Still made a great shot and doe ran 40 yards and piled up in the huisache. 180xtp at 1500fps, I know it’s not your cast bullet but it is a 357.

Trapr

Tell miss Sherry thats a heck of a shot! Ive killed truck loads of game with the 180xtp and the 170 gold dot. I had super confidence in those two bullets. These cast bullets dont seem to be as uniform in their behaviors. I really feel i need to get away from the rifle bullet for hunting and move toward something with a LFN or WFN profile. I REALLY wish the MP 360-640 weighed a little more.

[hgunhtr]

well done chuck. there aint much resistance where you punched that hog. you may have to have your perfect bullet mold built, however keeping a HP and maybe even softening your alloy slightly might give you what you are looking for since you are PC'ing. keep up the testing, you are having fun and learning alot about cast bullets,pc'ing and your shooting ability.

[bigbore5]

Jan 31, 2024 21:24:13 GMT -5 hunter01 said:

Jan 31, 2024 21:16:13 GMT -5 bigbrowndog said:

Well speaking of 357 bullet testing miss Sherry used my 357max this evening to take a nice adult whitetail doe at 97yards, she almost got it on video but forgot to switch the camera angle from backward to forward. So she got audio with a picture of the back window of her stand. Still made a great shot and doe ran 40 yards and piled up in the huisache. 180xtp at 1500fps, I know it’s not your cast bullet but it is a 357.

Trapr

Tell miss Sherry thats a heck of a shot! Ive killed truck loads of game with the 180xtp and the 170 gold dot. I had super confidence in those two bullets. These cast bullets dont seem to be as uniform in their behaviors. I really feel i need to get away from the rifle bullet for hunting and move toward something with a LFN or WFN profile. I REALLY wish the MP 360-640 weighed a little more.

Try the 359-640. It's a heavy version of the 360-640. 179grs with my alloy in solids. Great penetration and a good killer. The large hp is really effective on deer, but I usually tend to stick with the small pins for pigs.

[hunter01]

Feb 1, 2024 4:41:26 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

Jan 31, 2024 21:24:13 GMT -5 hunter01 said:

Tell miss Sherry thats a heck of a shot! Ive killed truck loads of game with the 180xtp and the 170 gold dot. I had super confidence in those two bullets. These cast bullets dont seem to be as uniform in their behaviors. I really feel i need to get away from the rifle bullet for hunting and move toward something with a LFN or WFN profile. I REALLY wish the MP 360-640 weighed a little more.

Try the 359-640. It's a heavy version of the 360-640. 179grs with my alloy in solids. Great penetration and a good killer. The large hp is really effective on deer, but I usually tend to stick with the small pins for pigs.

Ill check that one out. Im also thinking a GC may be in order as hard as i want to push pressure. I feel like even below a velocity threshold, there has to be a point in pressure where a GC is beneficial.

[messybear]

More testing done. Gotta love it!

[Fowler]

Tough job but someone has to do it.

One question I have is with cast hollow points is there any evidence of expansion and the shearing off the nose before the exit? One of the theoretical advantages of a cast hollow point is it will expand, do its damage in the lungs and then when it gets to the back side of the animal shed its pedals and continue to penetrate. Or your alloy could be a little tough but with PC you should be able to soften it a fair bit softer than traditional lubed bullets (there is a limit to how soft you can go, I discovered this in a vivid was on some lead that was probably 6-8 hardness).

Just the thoughts that jump into my head...

[hunter01]

Feb 1, 2024 9:29:24 GMT -5 Fowler said:

Tough job but someone has to do it.

One question I have is with cast hollow points is there any evidence of expansion and the shearing off the nose before the exit? One of the theoretical advantages of a cast hollow point is it will expand, do its damage in the lungs and then when it gets to the back side of the animal shed its pedals and continue to penetrate. Or your alloy could be a little tough but with PC you should be able to soften it a fair bit softer than traditional lubed bullets (there is a limit to how soft you can go, I discovered this in a vivid was on some lead that was probably 6-8 hardness).

Just the thoughts that jump into my head...

My alloy is 1/2coww and 1/2 scrap with some added tin. I air cool after PC so id suspect BHN to be 12 or so, maybe even less. On a recent pig shot through the shoulders, the bullet expanded beautifully right down to the bottom of the HP cavity. Thats the only bullet ive been able to recover. Those that sail through are showing minimal if any expansion but thats just looking at holes and i cant be sure without the bullets. This rcbs clone has a meplate of about .2 i believe. Im thinking its not the ideal bullet at handgun velocities and i intend to get something with a larger meplate asap.

[bigbrowndog]

Fowler, one of the 250gr. PCHPs for my 414sm that I got from Dick did lose the nose. I found two or three pieces of it and the base on a pig I took. It was going 1500ish from the muzzle and impact was 70ish yards away.

Trapr

[hgunhtr]

the cast SWC HP's that I got from sixshot were GC and penta point pins were used. Obviously he knows alot more than we do when it comes to cast and powder coating bullets. I hope he chimes in here. I have no idea what the hardness or the alloy of his mix is, however on an old post he posted his formula for ww/lead vs velocity. I have pushed the same 44 cast bullets that I shared with you over 1400 fps with good accuracy and no leading or PC smearing. I have I started at 70/30 WW/lead and have backed down to 60/40 and am currently testing 50/50 for my special running them under 1100 fps. I might go to 40/60 for testing as well. I will have to come down for a week and do some load testing on your hog population! I have yet to catch a bullet to examine and havent found any signs of shed petals from the HP nose coming apart.
Lastly, I admire your dedication to find the limitations of the 357 Mag. I think that alot of us can benefit from your testing.

[sixshot]

It's true that over the last 10 years or so, since I've been powder coating that I've been going softer & softer with my alloys & still getting good results. But you still have to maintain both accuracy & results. Without either one you're just kicking the can down the road. If it were me shooting those hogs with a 357 (wish it was) I would drop down to a 180 gr HP cast powder coated bullet & pick up some velocity & I think you would get better results. Your shot was a little bit high & in soft tissue so one shot isn't a very good test but you did get quite a bit of blood & a recovery.
Trapr has killed a lot of hogs with many different calibers & probably has more imput here than I do. But as soon as I get my old model 357 back from Bobby Tyler I plan to do a lot more testing with my 180 gr HP mould. Mine is the Miha 357 Carbine style & I've mostly used it in the 357 Maximum on mule deer & antelope.
Also there are times when you do need a GC, even with powder coating to maintain accuracy if you are really leaning on your loads for top end velocity. Sometimes not, it's best to test them at long range to really give them an honest test.

Dick

[hunter01]

Feb 1, 2024 11:19:07 GMT -5 hgunhtr said:

the cast SWC HP's that I got from sixshot were GC and penta point pins were used. Obviously he knows alot more than we do when it comes to cast and powder coating bullets. I hope he chimes in here. I have no idea what the hardness or the alloy of his mix is, however on an old post he posted his formula for ww/lead vs velocity. I have pushed the same 44 cast bullets that I shared with you over 1400 fps with good accuracy and no leading or PC smearing. I have I started at 70/30 WW/lead and have backed down to 60/40 and am currently testing 50/50 for my special running them under 1100 fps. I might go to 40/60 for testing as well. I will have to come down for a week and do some load testing on your hog population! I have yet to catch a bullet to examine and havent found any signs of shed petals from the HP nose coming apart.
Lastly, I admire your dedication to find the limitations of the 357 Mag. I think that alot of us can benefit from your testing.

I hope they are still this thick when you make it down here. As we green up in the spring they will find other food sources.

[bigbrowndog]

Yep it’s hard to find them when natural food sources are plentiful, you can’t get them to come to artificial offerings, or at least it’s much tougher. One thing worth trying is hog estrous bombs, they can be hit or miss though.
Sixshots recommendation of a GC bullet (even with PC)for top speed is what I’ve learned using my 414sm it shoots really well for about 10-12 rounds and then it goes to crap. Use a GC and accuracy does not diminish appreciably during a range session of 20-40 rounds.

Trapr

[bigbore5]

I don't really range shoot. I hunt groundhog for my long range shooting. I have even stopped using gc on most my bullets even in the maximum. But I do like the Bradshaw-Martin bullet so far.

The more pure lead in my mix, the better the HP stays together. I'm shooting lead from Axeman right now. 12bhn air cool, 15 water-droppped. PC is from a member as well.