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Post by rexster on Jan 4, 2024 10:15:43 GMT -5
When shooting a 1911 two-handed, right-handed, I still do ride the top of the safety, with my right thumb, because my left hand fills the area up to the underside of the safety. Both thumbs point toward the target. My support hand is HIGH, on the side of the pistol. My right thumb is too short to reach the slide stop, and my left thumb does not make contasct with the slide stop.
When shooting a 1911 two-handed, left-handed, my right hand is high, on the side of the pistol, as when shooting righty, right thumb forward, so, my left thumb, also forward, simply rests above the right thumb. None of the 1911 pistols I currently own have “ambidextrous” safety levers, so, the right side of the weapon is slick.
This assumes that I am not training with a hand-held light. Obviously, that requires a modified support-hand position. For most of my adult life, the presumption has been that I would be likely to have to shoot one-handed, due to my support hand being unavailable, or that I would have a light in my support. (I worked 33+ years of night shift police patrol.) Only rarely did I compete in a very few “practical” matches, during which I wore my duty rig. (Moving from cover to cover, shooting at different targets.)
I make no claim to being any kind of expert.
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Post by marlin35 on Jan 4, 2024 11:13:27 GMT -5
I ride the safety. Obviously safety design has a lot to do with the comfort of doing so. I find that if I do not ride the safety my thumb feels like it has nowhere to go and I end up inadvertently flipping the safety back on. With my thumb riding the safety everything feels “right.” Whatever feels right for your hands on your guns is what I would say is the correct thing for you.
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Post by revolvercranker on Jan 4, 2024 12:25:40 GMT -5
Mr Bradshaw you mentioned grip safety. I've always hated them and it's apparent that Browning felt there wasn't a need for one when the Hi Power was being designed. Luger P08's use to have them and were dropped. The M1911 and its grip safety are the product of a bygone era. I believe Jeff Cooper wasn't fond of them either. To me it's bad enough that they are there, but the current craze is the hump on them (or flared out on the bottom) and I despise those. Still with that said I will not pin my grip safety in the disengaged position. Along with grip safeties I'm not in big favor of magazine disconnects.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 4, 2024 13:15:26 GMT -5
Mr Bradshaw you mentioned grip safety. I've always hated them and it's apparent that Browning felt there wasn't a need for one when the Hi Power was being designed. Luger P08's use to have them and were dropped. The M1911 and its grip safety are the product of a bygone era. I believe Jeff Cooper wasn't fond of them either. To me it's bad enough that they are there, but the current craze is the hump on them (or flared out on the bottom) and I despise those. Still with that said I will not pin my grip safety in the disengaged position. Along with grip safeties I'm not in big favor of magazine disconnects. ***** I’ve shot & carried the pinned grip safety. I still use one or a couple of 1911’s with pinned grip safety. The old S&W Centennial .38 Special with grip safety was a palm pincher. May have been in Soldier of Fortune, an author cursed the grip safety on the UZI submachine gun. I think he failed to realize its purpose----to prevent discharge in the event the gun is dropped or bashed on the butt. While we’re on likes & dislikes, I favor the extended grip safeties found on Les Baer and Kimber., and used by many others. Don’t want an extended slide catch, nor extended magazine button. Nor do I want a laundry chute on the mag well. One other point: checkering or skate board tape is more important on the front strap than on the back strap (although prefer both places). David Bradshaw |
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Post by revolvercranker on Jan 4, 2024 13:41:01 GMT -5
Mr Bradshaw you mentioned grip safety. I've always hated them and it's apparent that Browning felt there wasn't a need for one when the Hi Power was being designed. Luger P08's use to have them and were dropped. The M1911 and its grip safety are the product of a bygone era. I believe Jeff Cooper wasn't fond of them either. To me it's bad enough that they are there, but the current craze is the hump on them (or flared out on the bottom) and I despise those. Still with that said I will not pin my grip safety in the disengaged position. Along with grip safeties I'm not in big favor of magazine disconnects. ***** I’ve shot & carried the pinned grip safety. I still use one or a couple of 1911’s with pinned grip safety. The old S&W Centennial .38 Special with grip safety was a palm pincher. May have been in Soldier of Fortune, an author cursed the grip safety on the UZI submachine gun. I think he failed to realize its purpose----to prevent discharge in the event the gun is dropped or bashed on the butt. While we’re on likes & dislikes, I favor the extended grip safeties found on Les Baer and Kimber., and used by many others. Don’t want an extended slide catch, nor extended magazine button. Nor do I want a laundry chute on the mag well. One other point: checkering or skate board tape is more important on the front strap than on the back strap (although prefer both places). David Bradshaw I can easily go along with what you said David. You know not a 1911 look at the Glock. Since it's inception it has really taken off. I feel one of the reasons is that it has done away with just about all the "safeties" except for it's trigger lever type, which many makers have copied. The Glock showed you don't need all the whistles and whizbangs for a safe pistol. Grant you it's not hammer fired and that makes some difference for types of safeties. |
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
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Post by gnappi on Jan 4, 2024 13:43:48 GMT -5
David, +1 :-)
Back in my IPSC shooting days the extended "slide release" (so called because it was used that way) extended mag release button and magwell were necessities, today they're not at all needed but some of my pistols that were bought back then still sport these doodads because replacing them is an unnecessary expense.
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Post by revolvercranker on Jan 4, 2024 14:00:22 GMT -5
Ironic we're discussing the 1911 and Guns&Ammo latest has an article on the 1911 that the Marines use to use. It was interesting as it was purposely built.
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Post by cas on Jan 4, 2024 18:12:03 GMT -5
My dads old bullseye gun, I would often shoot with my thumb straight up in the air along side the slide. I didn't do it all the time, and I don't even really recall why I started doing it. Maybe it was to make some sort of mental separation that I was doing a different kind of shooting. Otherwise, I ride the safety and have the permanent callus to go with it.  I'm strongly opposed to the idea of having two different (strong hand) grips when shooting one handed or two handed. |
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Post by ridenshoot on Jan 4, 2024 19:19:30 GMT -5
I ride the safety of both my 1911s and Hi Powers with my strong hand thumb. I have a Sig P210 (newest model) and I tend to ride that safety with my thumb as well. It seems a natural place for my thumb to be based on ergonomics for my hand size, I think it also tends to help with recoil maybe, though I have no objective way to tell that. Additionally, I like having my thumb in contact with the safety so when it is time to put the gun back on safe I already have my thumb in contact with the safety lever. Interesting how we all have our different ways and reasons for what we do. Long ago I had a Taurus pistol that was a Beretta 92 clone sort of, but it had a safety that was also a decocker. Up was safe, down was fire, all the way down was decock and it would spring up to fire again. This caused me all kinds of issues while riding the safety, it would often not fire because I was forcing the lever down to the decock position. This is why I believe riding the safety helps with recoil, I am actually putting a fair amount of pressure on the safety lever. This is also why that gun had to go down the road. ***** ridenshoot.... the Beretta safety copied the decock feature of the Walther PP pistols and P-38. The Taurus method sounds redundant. Jeff Cooper claimed that the P-38 was subject to discharge at hammer drop, a hazard I never experienced with my Nazi stamp P-38 of 1944, nor various Walther PPK and PPK/s pocket pistols, nor the Beretta 92. Even if my anatomy was inclined to “ride the safety,” the profusion of pistol types, along with variety of 1911 THUMB SAFETY configurations, might discourage my hitching a ride. Now add one more anatomical factor: the meat below my raised thumb inclines to lift off the GRIP SAFETY, which stops trigger squeeze, a potential for lethal embarrassment. If your anatomy----in conjunction with a competition-favorite pancake safety----acts to engage the thumb safety on recoil, by all means ride the safety. Merrill and RPM single shot pistolTo fire, the Merrill/RPM pistol requires thumb safety be depressed, a feature I cannot abide. A light pressure, yet a conscious pressure. Perhaps it is the way I’m wired, and makes me ultra-aware of my thumb during the brief moment of SQUEEZE, when I want my thumb to sleep. David Bradshaw Perhaps this quote from the Taurus website is a better description of the safety on the Taurus 92, which I found did not work well for me. "With its drop hammer forged, ordnance-grade alloy frame, the Taurus 92 is an innovative and reliable semiautomatic pistol that’s built to last. The 92 features a three-position, frame-mounted ambidextrous safety that is more secure than a slide-mounted safety—allowing for a classic “cocked and locked” mode as well as a functioning DA decocking lever." This link might be helpful as well: www.taurususa.com/pistols/taurus-92/taurus-r-92-matte-black-9mm-luger-full-size-17-rds |
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Post by revolvercranker on Jan 4, 2024 20:24:43 GMT -5
Not pertinent to the 1911 discussion the Taurus 92 was mentioned and when I had my business a friend of mine use to order cases of 9mm both pistol and submachinegun. The submachinegun ammo was much hotter then the standard 9mm. He had full auto weapons legal with the licenses. He tried the hotter 9mm in a Beretta 92. The submachinegun ammo cracked the slide. Then he replaced it with a Taurus 92. He said the Taurus was vault strong and handled the hotter 9mm with zero problem. He stated that he doubted one could destruct that pistol.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 5, 2024 9:01:37 GMT -5
My dads old bullseye gun, I would often shoot with my thumb straight up in the air along side the slide. I didn't do it all the time, and I don't even really recall why I started doing it. Maybe it was to make some sort of mental separation that I was doing a different kind of shooting. Otherwise, I ride the safety and have the permanent callus to go with it. I'm strongly opposed to the idea of having two different (strong hand) grips when shooting one handed or two handed. ***** cas.... this doesn’t look like a bullseye gun. As for the high thumb, Bullseye had yet to be supplanted by Combat----which Jeff Cooper and his group relabeled “Practical”----some old timers explained to me the workings of the alibi rule in Bullseye: if you pull a shot and want to re-shoot that target, press your thumb against the slide to cause a stoppage. This is easily done with a light recoil spring. The shooter calls for an alibi, and gets to re-shoot muffed target. Both IPSC (International Practical Shooting Confederation) and IHMSA (International Handgun Metallics Silhouette Association) invoked a NO ALIBI rule early on. The thumb may be the most important digit to development of the homo sapiens brain. Very important to pistol shooting, too, which emphatically includes recoil control and FOLLOW THROUGH----without over-flexing the thumb. David Bradshaw |
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gnappi
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,610
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Post by gnappi on Jan 5, 2024 9:46:07 GMT -5
Not pertinent to the 1911 discussion the Taurus 92 was mentioned and when I had my business a friend of mine use to order cases of 9mm both pistol and submachinegun. The submachinegun ammo was much hotter then the standard 9mm. He had full auto weapons legal with the licenses. He tried the hotter 9mm in a Beretta 92. The submachinegun ammo cracked the slide. Then he replaced it with a Taurus 92. He said the Taurus was vault strong and handled the hotter 9mm with zero problem. He stated that he doubted one could destruct that pistol. I've been fond of the PT clones of the Beretta for a long time and IMO the safety on them for a DA/SA pistol is ideal especially for shooters who like me use 1911's. I hoped that Taurus would come out with an all steel model, but no :-) Beretta quietly "fixed" the slide cracking with the Brigadier slide and it took them Waayyy too long to re-introduce the 92/96 in a steel frame version but, alas when they did with the extra strength of the steel frame they could have widened the frame tunnel for a higher capacity .40 mag like the .40 PX4's 14 rounder but nope. 11 was max. As it is the X-performance is a long awaited addition to the Beretta line, but maybe 20+ years too late. Mine with a modified 96D Brigadier slide to accommodate the safety paddle.  |
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Post by AxeHandle on Jan 5, 2024 13:59:20 GMT -5
some old timers explained to me the workings of the alibi rule in Bullseye: if you throw a shot and want to re-run that string, hold your thumb against the slide to cause a stoppage.
This is an old High Power Rifle shooter trick. In bullseye pistol, at least for the last 50 years based on my hands on experience.. all shots count. Shoot an alibi and ALL shots count. In fact the LOW ten are your score for record.
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Post by cas on Jan 5, 2024 18:00:39 GMT -5
cas.... this doesn’t look low a bullseye gun. Mmm.. no, that's not the bullseye gun. |
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Post by sixshot on Jan 6, 2024 3:03:58 GMT -5
I think the late Charlie Askins was credited with the "alibi" rule..........
Dick
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