Shooting PC unchecked gas check design bullets?

[singleaction]

Is there a problem with shooting cast bullets designed for gas checks without the checks installed? I just ordered a couple Lee 440gr WFNGC molds to try out in a custom mid frame Blackhawk in 500 S&W special. Since gas checks tend to raise pressures compared to plain base, I’d like to try them without the checks installed. I will be powder coating (My first attempt). Will PC help keep the bases from melting and/or otherwise causing problems? Velocity will only be around 900fps with 2400 powder?

[Fowler]

Reports I have heard have been extremely mixed, PC is the only chance you have of being successful though. Sage outdoors has Gator checks instock for the .501” dia. You will just have to try some with and some without and see what you find. I’m betting dollar to a donut the gas checks shoot noticeably better.

I will say though that 900fps and 2400 doesn’t seem like a combo I’d think of first. There are better mid range powders out there, W231, Unique, Titegroup come to mind quickly.

[singleaction]

Thanks for the advice. The load data provided by David Clements for this gun includes loads for the Cast Performance 440gr WFNGC using 2400 powder at a rats hair over 900fps (5.5” barrel). The powders you mention might be better. Lab tested data for this cartridge seems almost non-existent. I need to make friends with someone who can run some numbers through a ballistics program. I really don’t want to hurt myself or this gun.

[callshot]

I experienced just slight differences in accuracy years ago. Shooting a 41 with greased bullets, hadn’t got into powder coating then, I got shots at about 11 0’clock with unchecked and about 1 0’clock with gas checks. Don’t remember the powder ( could be Unique ) and it was about 900 to 950 fps. It was a 225 cast bullet. Haven’t shot that load for about 20 years. Just an interesting observation.

[paul105]

Dec 10, 2023 14:28:43 GMT -5 singleaction said:

Since gas checks tend to raise pressures compared to plain base, I’d like to try them without the checks installed.

Ross Seyried had this test done, which in one case shows just the opposite.



FWIW,

Paul

[singleaction]

Dec 19, 2023 15:07:17 GMT -5 paul105 said:

Dec 10, 2023 14:28:43 GMT -5 singleaction said:

Since gas checks tend to raise pressures compared to plain base, I’d like to try them without the checks installed.

Ross Seyried had this test done, which in this case shows just the opposite.



FWIW,

Paul

That is interesting. I’ve read elsewhere, particularly a report by Brian Pierce, that gas checks can raise pressures by 5 to 10,000 psi.

[paul105]

From the same article: Oct 1993 Guns & AMMO


.

[singleaction]

Dec 19, 2023 15:46:58 GMT -5 paul105 said:

From the same article: Oct 1993 Guns & AMMO

Thanks for the info. I’m rethinking my options for sure!

[gnappi]

I cast for my .480 and PC 325 grain GC'd base bullets without the gas checks.

I've not recovered any so I can't speak to powder burning / melting it, but it should be no different with a GC design or without a GC flat base design.

[paul105]

I'm sure there are no absolutes here - way too many variables. The only way to really know is to try it both ways in your gun with your alloy, lube/powder coat, diameter, etc. to see if any real difference materializes.

Good luck,

Paul

[sixshot]

I've tried it a few times with mixed results. Almost always the test doesn't come out too well without a GC on the bullet, especially if driven very fast. My tests were limited because of the results.

Dick

[paul105]

Memory challenged at times, and for discussion only: What about heeled bullets? Right off, 22s come to mine. I think Jim Taylor had a 475 heeled bullet cartridge of some sort. Just curios why these work and gas cheked designs without check are problematic?

Sorry for the hijack, probably should have started a new post.

Paul

[singleaction]

Dec 20, 2023 14:41:02 GMT -5 paul105 said:

Memory challenged at times, and for discussion only: What about heeled bullets? Right off, 22s come to mine. I think Jim Taylor had a 475 heeled bullet cartridge of some sort. Just curios why these work and gas cheked designs without check are problematic?

Sorry for the hijack, probably should have started a new post.

Paul

You are not hijacking the thread at all. That same thought occurred to me, actually.

[bigbore5]

Because those are lower pressure loads. Most people still trying to get the same velocity as with the check on. The gas check relief area causes a higher pressure area effect that worsens gas cutting and causes turbulence at the base,which doesn't leave the muzzle concentric to the bullet.

I'm not that smart, but my sister is a Doctor in aerospace and aeronautical engineering. I build valves. She's literally a rocket scientist. She didn't say it that simple until my eyes glazed over.

[singleaction]

Dec 20, 2023 19:40:15 GMT -5 bigbore5 said:

Because those are lower pressure loads. Most people still trying to get the same velocity as with the check on. The gas check relief area causes a higher pressure area effect that worsens gas cutting and causes turbulence at the base,which doesn't leave the muzzle concentric to the bullet.

I'm not that smart, but my sister is a Doctor in aerospace and aeronautical engineering. I build valves. She's literally a rocket scientist. She didn't say it that simple until my eyes glazed over.

Thanks for you and your sister’s input. I believe I’ve read something to that effect about bevel based machine cast bullets. Once heat and pressure get above a certain point, problems start.