Cast HP vs Jacketed

[revolvercranker]

Dick, the first I was working with PC if found myself dropping the bullets because they are so slippery. The the first time I sized one I though the linkage broken on my sizer, but it didn't. The are so hard and slick they size effortlessly for me. What I'm getting at I wonder if they penetrate better because not only are then tough like you mentioned, but slicker. That friend of mine that is into high velocity rifle shooting with PC said for the same load for a jacketed bullet using a PC bullet of the same weight has a lower velocity. Again assumed from them being slicker. He also talked about what PC coating in the bore was extremely hard to clean out. The bore solvents won't touch it. Now I'm not getting much if any at all in my loads. I only see a trace of it here and there with my borescope. One would think that Acetone would clean it as if you mix Acetone with the powder before you bake it, it dissolves into like a paint and in fact some people coat their bullet with it in that paint form. After it bakes though it's a whole different animal.

I don't mess much with PC with handgun bullets because my plain lubed cast is working so well for me. I mainly coat rifle bullets. In some cases they PC shoots better then cast in others it doesn't, but that's my mileage.

About that pent point, Bob once told me he didn't care for it and liked the convention hollowpoint better.

[reflex264]

The reason I would choose one over the other is availibility. Of course I use both. I have some penta hp setting on the bench right now. I started shooting cast bullets sometime in the 70s and I have probably killed more deer with non expnading cast bullets that any other bullet. That said I am always trying something new. I bought one of B.B. custom molds that will run two solids or has an adjustable hollow point in one cavity. I did learn that the harder bullets (18-22 BH) wont expand at any reasonable velocity even with the hollow point. From 15BH down they expand quite well. As for powder coating I love it. I haven't done any yet but have shot plenty done by others. Accurate, no leading and the ability to shoot softer bullets fast. I don't have an issue drivng them fast which works well with the Cast HP bullets.

I am intrigued by that deer running a long ways after being shot with cast bullets. I did have one doe run about 50 yards once after taking a .44 WFN through the lungs but most are down in 20 yards or less. Out of most of the .44 Specials I hunt with they are still my go to. My go two in the .480 as well. That is part of shooting live targets. You never never know what they are goiong to do.

[Big Bore]

Appreciate everyone's responses. I've secured a source for a handful of test samples in 45. I'll be trying these in my FA M97/45 Colt. While I have no doubt these will hammer our deer, I'm truly anxious to see what happens when a mid-sized hog (150ish lbs) is the target. Time will tell.

Thanks again everyone! Truly an educational read from start to finish.

[sixshot]

You're kind of jumping back & forth over the fence here, sometimes comparing rifles to six guns. What happens at six gun velocity can be much different that what happens at much higher rifle velocity & usually is, and Bob certainly knows this, he's one of the most knowledgeable shooters here on the forum. A cast bullet, either "neked" or powder coated is going to have less pressure than a jacketed bullet, but I doubt it would have anything to do with being slick enough to aid in penetration on a game animal.
I have no experience shooting powder coated bullets in rifles since I don't own a rifle but I've read that many shooters have the same high success shooting cast powder coated bullets in their rifles as we handguns shooters do, I'll leave it at that. I do know that in talking with Bob that he has done extensive testing with regular cast bullet lubes & is very happy with his results, I can't argue with his results, he's done his homework. There's more than one way to make a good cast bullet, certainly the way I do it isn't for everyone, I just do what works for me & I'm very happy with the results. But we need to keep our comparisons limited to either six guns or rifles, not both, and first hand knowledge works best for me, especially with photo's. I have over 7,000 photo's over on Photobucket, wish I could retrieve them, lots of animals taken in past years, all with cast.

Dick

[revolvercranker]

Hey Dick, we can keep rifle and handgun cast bullets and PC bullets separate. Don't have a problem with that.

I see you lost photos too at Photobucket. I assume when they went to making us pay.

[bigbore5]

This years .357mag hunting loads imgur.com/a/ZlbCrCL

Both over 15.3gr H-110, CCI 400 primers.

The solid is 14bhn. The hp is 10bhn

[giblett]

Well seeing this i think i will load of some of the deer gernades from rim rock for the 44 and try to take a pig with the 44 mag. That big ole hollow point ought to smack one.

[sixshot]

Haven't really lost them, one of my daughter in laws can retrieve them when she's around, it's just a pain to ask her to do it. A lot of my deer & most of my elk are on there plus a record book moose that I passed up twice because it was still in velvet. Had the moose at 10 yds once & didn't shoot it.

Dick

[bearskinner]

I really like the look of the Penta points, and solids are always great penetrators. I loaded up a bunch of “Cup points” a light HP, that really SLAPS game hard, and still really penetrates. Just started with the 260 grain cast cup points, in 41 caliber. (10” FA83) It’s taking the place of my lifelong love of the FA83 in 454, and working very well.

[Big Bore]

Oct 19, 2023 9:09:27 GMT -5 bearskinner said:

View AttachmentView AttachmentI really like the look of the Penta points, and solids are always great penetrators. I loaded up a bunch of “Cup points” a light HP, that really SLAPS game hard, and still really penetrates. Just started with the 260 grain cast cup points, in 41 caliber. (10” FA83) It’s taking the place of my lifelong love of the FA83 in 454, and working very well.

Mike, was that elk taken with your 41 or 454?  And was it with a cast HP?

[Randominator]

Mike,

When did you kill that elk? Is that your new FA 41 magnum?

[bearskinner]

Yes, I’m playing with the 41 now, and 475 for Africa.  I just got home. Cast the 260’s a month or so ago, there a small cup hollow point, and in my trap testing, they hold together very well, while imparting a light HP impact slap. I just started using them. My usual accuracy load of 2400, punched right on thru. I’m really starting to like these cast bullets for heavier critters. I have a GC and a PB mold, but so far they are equally as accurate. I think for lighter critters the 210 grain Swift A frame HP.
I was surprised that the shot at what I SWAGged to be 150 yards, so I held 4” or so above the heart, which is exactly where the POI was. That 41 (10”, FA83) carries wonderfully.it ranged at 138 yards. 

[sixshot]

I told you that 41 was going to be a real game getter Mike & you're going to be a real hammer with it! Nice bull & good shooting buddy!!

Dick

[blackmamba]

Beautiful elk, bearskinner, and that bullet looks like a real killer: penetration but with a larger wound channel.

[bearskinner]

There is something about a 1200-1400fps pistol bullet impact ( larger flat or HP Meplat) that imparts a lot more impact than it looks like it should on paper. Plus you get 50-100 fps more velocity with a cast bullet over jacketed. I’m even thinking the powder coated bullets might zip along a little faster than conventional lead, lubed as well. But I haven’t ever tested speed differences between the two. 
      My first shot dropped the Elk, even though no rib bones were struck. The grape jelly impact point on the outside of the ribs was quite impressive. As the bull started sliding down the hill, he was trying to regain his feet, so I placed a second shot thru the point of the shoulder, lodging in the off side shoulder just under the skin, after penetrating both sides. Possibly due to him being on the hillside, against the ground. An anchor shot, not needed, but I always like to pay the insurance. We were a draw away, and had to drop out of sight, then back up to recover him, so I wanted him to still be there once we picked our way back up. 
     Best part about it was my Son joined me on this hunt, although he was using a rifle, this was my first hunt with him as an adult now. He made one perfect heart shot. I’ll get some pics and do a write up later.