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Post by webber on Oct 16, 2023 19:52:48 GMT -5
I hesitate to ask this.
Is there a general rule for the poundage increase when going to a, for the sake of conversation, a +P load in a 1911 45 Auto?
Since SAAMI says a +P load is 10 percent over standard pressure would it be okay to go 10 to 15 percent over on recoil spring poundage.
16 pounds in a Government is standard so would a 17.5 or maybe an 18.5 pound be okay. I don't want a spring that would keep the gun from functioning with Standard pressure loads especially when dirty.
At the same time I don't want slide velocity to hammer the gun either.
Or should I just put in a heavier hammer spring to retard initial slide movement and leave the recoil spring alone?
Thanks.
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Post by webber on Oct 17, 2023 10:20:15 GMT -5
Sorry for the bother.
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 17, 2023 12:30:24 GMT -5
Webber.... not everyone looks for a formula to calculate every nuance of recoil in the operation of a delayed blowback pistol. Your interest may lead you to develop such a formula----replete with all the permutations of:
* make & model of pistol.
* pistol fit-up.
* cartridge & load.
* lubrication.
* dirt & fowling.
* climate & temperature.
You might fill a book with your findings.
FEEL is a critical element of a handgun that rides with me. Auto pistols are designed for a specific cartridge and/or operating range, not just for reliability, but for durability also. Take all this stuff to account as you commence your research on the firing line. As for this shooter, recoil tells whether the pistol is happy, or not.
The slide has two motions: forward into battery and rearward to recoil arrest. A heavy recoil spring may prevent frame & slide battering, yet batter the parts going into battery. Longevity favors a pistol operating inside those extremes.
David Bradshaw
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Post by webber on Oct 17, 2023 12:42:19 GMT -5
Webber.... not everyone looks for a formula to calculate every nuance of recoil in the operation of a delayed blowback pistol. Your interest may lead you to develop such a formula----replete with all the permutations of: * make & model of pistol. * pistol fit-up. * cartridge & load. * lubrication. * dirt & fowling. * climate & temperature. You might fill a book with your findings. FEEL is a critical element of a handgun that rides with me. Auto pistols are designed for a specific cartridge and/or operating range, not just for reliability, but for durability also. Take all this stuff to account as you commence your research on the firing line. As for this shooter, recoil tells whether the pistol is happy, or not. The slide has two motions: forward into battery and rearward to recoil arrest. A heavy recoil spring may prevent frame & slide battering, yet batter the parts going into battery. Longevity favors a pistol operating inside those extremes. David Bradshaw How do you feel about just using a heavier Hammer Spring to retard the initial rearward movement and leaving the standard spring in? Or, using a flat bottomed Firing Pin Stop and that only or a FB Firing Pin Stop and a heavier Hammer Spring. Those two used separately or in conjunction with each other would prevent a heavier Recoil Spring from battering the gun when it returns to battery? Thanks. |
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Post by foxtrapper on Oct 17, 2023 14:05:47 GMT -5
How much +p are u going to shooting? If it’s a box every now and then and the gun cycles as is I’d leave it alone… but dats me!
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 17, 2023 16:55:01 GMT -5
Webber.... the square bottom firing pin retainer retards early slide acceleration. Also makes it harder to rack the slide without first cocking the pistol, if that matters. As for a stronger mains spring (hammer spring), how about you decide? What’s your experience? My loads don’t challenge performance of the factory spring.
During ignition, the firing pin must lay forward----support the primer----long enough to prevent BLANKING (primer extrusion into firing pin hole).
David Bradshaw
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Post by wendigo on Oct 17, 2023 22:14:02 GMT -5
Can't help you with a formula, but I do have a little experience playing with recoil springs. Back around Y2K I bought a Kimber Target model 1911 that turned out to be a "built on Monday or Friday" gun. I won't list all the maladies, but it was also afflicted with a tight/short throated chamber. I ran it for around 5000 rounds with a load of 5.5 W231 with a 200swc loaded to 1.115" OAL, also switching to a 22 pound recoil spring to give it a little extra oomph going into battery. Light load/heavy spring ran fine, perceptually it did feel like it cycled a bit slower, but not to the point where you could outrun the trigger on a double tap. Over the years the chamber's become more agreeable and I switched to an 18.5 and 1.250" OAL a couple years ago. No problems with the current setup.
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markwell
.30 Stingray
Firearms resale value should be your children's problem
Posts: 332
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Post by markwell on Oct 18, 2023 10:22:04 GMT -5
In all of our .45 1911, except one, we've always run 18.5lb recoil springs. The exception is one gun, thru which we shoot our "Geezer Load", which has a 14lb spring in it.
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gregs
.30 Stingray
Posts: 458 
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Post by gregs on Oct 22, 2023 16:27:47 GMT -5
I took a class on building 1911s. Although the style of build was geared toward duty weapons and high reliability.
All students were required to use an 18.5 lb recoil spring. The reasoning was better reliability and longer replacement interval over the standard 16 lb spring. (1500 vs 2500)
This came with a couple of requirements though. 1. We used a 19lb vs 23 pound mainspring or hammer spring, and (2.) A slightly longer ejector.
The ejector was a neutered extended ejector so that in a live round extraction it would not act as a firing pin. The extractor was cut flush to the back of the magwell (stick a straight edge in the magwell and mark the ejector, cut and shape to a 'standard' factory shape and adjust as needed of the firing line during proofing for proper angle.
The reasoning for the slightly extended ejector was to get reliability with the lighter payload (185 and 200gr) frangable ammunition used in some QCB and shoot houses.
These are some solutions but end user reliability testing is the ultimate tell.
My opinion would be to refrain from going up in poundage on the mainspring as that will effect shoot ability which is why you are running a 1911. Try the factory 16 lb and an 18.5. Check for battering after the 16lb. If running a shock buffer (government model only) stay away from soft ones on the range and remove for real use. You don't need a shock buffer coming apart in a gun during a serious use scenerio.
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