skeen
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 85
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Post by skeen on Oct 16, 2023 8:52:02 GMT -5
You fellas have convinced me I need a Dan Wesson Super Mag alongside my Ruger Maximums. đ
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 16, 2023 10:15:42 GMT -5
Mine is a solid shooter. Doubt I'll ever need the secod barrel, but it's nice to have.  -Lee www.singleactions.com "Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 20, 2023 16:31:18 GMT -5
Oh my goodness !!!
Lee, does that say "Maximum" on the shroud?
I don't recall ever seeing anything but Super Mag on a Dan Wesson. Maybe the battle with Elgin Gates and Ruger was over or hadn't started.
Was there a date they changed the caliber name on the Dan Wesson sixguns? Or was this just random?
Did any other manufacturer ever put 357 SuperMag on a gun besides DW?
It offends me to even type that name and give any credit whatsoever to anyone but David and the 2 Bill's.
Prescut
That pic of your DW is beautiful. It gleams.
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 20, 2023 21:13:43 GMT -5
Oh my goodness !!! Lee, does that say "Maximum" on the shroud? I don't recall ever seeing anything but Super Mag on a Dan Wesson. Maybe the battle with Elgin Gates and Ruger was over or hadn't started. Was there a date they changed the caliber name on the Dan Wesson sixguns? Or was this just random? Did any other manufacturer ever put 357 SuperMag on a gun besides DW? It offends me to even type that name and give any credit whatsoever to anyone but David and the 2 Bill's. Prescut That pic of your DW is beautiful. It gleams. ***** Prescut.... the .357 Remington Maximum started as a collaboration between an engineer at Remington and Bill Ruger, Jr. The Remington engineer is not one mentioned by a couple of writers who found it beneath their dignity to talk to me, writers who may not have the temerity to inquire of Bill Ruger or Bill, Jr., either. DWA fully understood the cartridge headed for SAAMI designation was a creation of Remington and Ruger. DWA stretched the M44 .44 Mag frame accommodate the .357 Maximum. The barrel length was limited to 8-inch to squeak by IHMSA weight limit of 4-pounds for Production guns. DWA at the Monson factory soon followed with the .445 Super Mag, and then the .375SM, neither of which arroused steel shooters. The .445 Super Mag Elgin Gatesâ answer to Dick Casullâs .454, with which it competes in muzzle blast only. As the .375 Super Mag case is a shortened .375 Winchester, with tapered case, it requires its own dies to reload. The parent case is, of course, the .375 Winchester. Through stocky extraction, this shooter immediately learned what Winchester had cautioned with the creation of the .375 Win and the beefing of the Model 94 to take it----.30-30 brass isnât made for the higher pressures. IHMSA .375 Super Mag brass is headstamped from .375 Win the draw, and offers much better spring-back. The .375 Super Mag gained attention from the small gathering of handgun silhouetters who apply sixguns to the NRA Rifle Silhouette course, where the 55-pound ram must be toppled 547 yards from the muzzle. For this job, IHMSA All-American Eric King chose the Nosler .375 260 grain Partition, with 7-grains of nose cut off to fit in the long cylinder of his Seville (The frame of Eric Kingâs Seville .375 Super Mag broke in half----lengthwise through the frame----during a shoot. Didnât hurt the cylinder.) .30-.30 brass isnât as strong as .375 Win brass; leastwise, not when I tried it. Dan Wesson revolvers in silhouette realized extreme mechanical accuracy through a clean, light trigger and fast lock time. This included the Model 15 .357 Mag, M44 .44 Mag, and M40 .357 Maximum. From a factory built in an old brick schoolhouse, a concert of fine dimensions was achieved. The DWA M44 is the lowest recoiling revolver of any .44. Its 4-pound weight counts big, yet doesn't fully explain the recoil dynamic so conducive to follow through. David Bradshaw |
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Bradshaw
Oct 20, 2023 22:11:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bigbore5 on Oct 20, 2023 22:11:17 GMT -5
As I have pointed out before, Dan Wesson called their revolver the Supermag. It was chambered for the 357 Maximum, not Elgin Gates' supermag. It was a marketing thing to draw from the Ruger Super Blackhawk/Maximum.
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Post by sixshot on Oct 21, 2023 0:06:36 GMT -5
I've always held out hope that David's reputation with the Ruger family would carry over to Lipsey's & a prayer would be answered....I'm still praying! We need that gun!
Dick
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Post by Lee Martin on Oct 21, 2023 6:21:59 GMT -5
Oh my goodness !!! Lee, does that say "Maximum" on the shroud? I don't recall ever seeing anything but Super Mag on a Dan Wesson. Maybe the battle with Elgin Gates and Ruger was over or hadn't started. Was there a date they changed the caliber name on the Dan Wesson sixguns? Or was this just random? Did any other manufacturer ever put 357 SuperMag on a gun besides DW? It offends me to even type that name and give any credit whatsoever to anyone but David and the 2 Bill's. Prescut That pic of your DW is beautiful. It gleams. It's marked ".357 Maximum". -Lee www.singleactions.com "Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 22, 2023 10:17:23 GMT -5
I'm still curious as why and when did Dan Wesson use both the Maximum and the Super Mag on their barrels.
All my DW's say Super Mag. I assumed incorrectly that they all said Super Mag.
Bigbore stated he thought it was a marketing move. Interesting, but that doesn't explain why there are 2 different names on the DW hawglegs.
I have read several stories of Elgin Gates dumpster diving for Maximum cylinders and then claiming creation of the 357 Super Mag.
There appears to be several "influencers" who felt they needed creation stories to cement their reputations. I get that. It can be hard to survive in a competitive world, without a little self-aggrandizement. Still, history needs to sort that kind of thing out and try at least for accuracy, if not truth.
It would be a nice addition to my take on history if I could figure out the naming of the DW barrels with 2 different cartridge names, for what is almost certainly the same caliber.
So my question is still at what point did DW change the name? Which name did DW use first?
"WHY" would be great, but I imagine that would only be a guess.
Prescut
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 24, 2023 21:09:19 GMT -5
I have read several stories of Elgin Gates dumpster diving for Maximum cylinders and then claiming creation of the 357 Super Mag. Prescut ***** Prescut.... Elgin didnât need to do no dumpster diving. I handed him the .357 Maximum on a silver platter. Early in development of the .357 Maximum, after returning home from the Ruger compound in Croydon, New Hampshire, I called Elgin and reported this cartridge in development between Remington and Ruger to deliver ram impact approximating .44 Mag at substantially lower recoil, that Bill and Bill Ruger, Jr., had asked me to participate. Elgin Gates and I very tight at the time. Elgin regarded me a force promoting steel shooting from the firing line, pushing the ethical separation between box-stock production and custom handguns, pushing revolver performance, and pushing revolver manufacturers to exceed expectations. Elgin already had Roy Weatherbyâs coronation in world wide big game trophy hunting, several top trap championships, and as a primal handgun silhouette pace setter. Why should I think he cared about grabbing title to a cartridge that wasnât his? To risk such a unique legacy for a cartridge? It made no sense. I handed Elgin the key to the .357 Maximum. Champions don't take their trophies with them to the grave. They take their name. David Bradshaw |
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 25, 2023 10:09:44 GMT -5
Hey David,
Thanks so much for the rendition of the events from someone who was actually there. I always enjoy and appreciate your writing of history. And you are right to question why some folks are willing to risk their own life story in order to take credit for what wasn't theirs.
I've seen it several times with top Generals who chose to wear a ribbon or decoration which they had not earned. There was a famous case a few years ago where the General was so embarrassed by the reveal they committed suicide. He had a chest full of decorations, but it wasn't enough. He had to have one more. That's the extreme case where destruction of the reputation meant a life's work was lost.
And you are right. It makes no sense,
Prescut
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Bradshaw
Oct 25, 2023 18:53:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by paleroadster on Oct 25, 2023 18:53:10 GMT -5
Well, I'm not David Bradshaw, but I do own several of the 8" DW Maximums which is a rarity for me. I normally love variety and don't duplicate revolvers. That alone should tell you all you need to know about how much I think of Dan Wesson Maximum sixguns. Prescut and I don't mis-name them with SuperMag. How much velocity do you get with the 8" barrel That seems like a funny thing to say, all my Dan Wesson SuperMags say "SuperMag" right where the factory engraved their factual name on them. Maximum is the generic name for non Dan Wessons like Rugers and TC Contenders. |
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Post by bigbore5 on Oct 25, 2023 19:49:36 GMT -5
How much velocity do you get with the 8" barrel That seems like a funny thing to say, all my Dan Wesson SuperMags say "SuperMag" right where the factory engraved their factual name on them. Maximum is the generic name for non Dan Wessons like Rugers and TC Contenders. Dan Wesson engraved their name for their revolver in large lettering on the left side of the barrel shroud for all to see. However if you look on the right-side of the barrel shroud on all the Supermags (just like shown in Lee's photo above), you will see the cartridge designation for that model. Only four were ever used: 1) 375 Supermag 2) 414 Supermag 3) 445 Supermag 4) 357 MAXIMUM! |
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Post by oddshooter on Oct 26, 2023 10:07:53 GMT -5
Thank you bigbore,
"Super Mag" isn't a cartridge/caliber name, it's a Model name.
I kinda feel like I've revealed how blind I can be.
I finally get it. I had never noticed the DW said BOTH Super Mag and 357 Maximum. My question about when did the transition occur was based on believing DW only printed one on their sixguns.
I have read that both Colt and Smith & Wesson refused to put a caliber name that contained a competitor's name on their sixguns, so they often used an almost identical bullet, but with a different caliber name. I related that to the false DW/Elgin Gates claims of parentage. Mistake.
I believe in my mind's eye I only noticed the names one at a time and the name seemed to be what I expected or wanted; no inconsistency.
But now, when I see them both on the DW hawgleg, I realize how clueless I can be sometimes wondering through life.
Prescut
an aside: My brother-in-law was a lieutenant in Seal Team One and when picking up my huge, long-barreled DW Max said, "That's not a revolver, that's a hawgleg". It stuck since I refuse to use Super Mag.
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 26, 2023 12:06:52 GMT -5
Thank you bigbore, "Super Mag" isn't a cartridge/caliber name, it's a Model name. I kinda feel like I've revealed how blind I can be. I finally get it. I had never noticed the DW said BOTH Super Mag and 357 Maximum. My question about when did the transition occur was based on believing DW only printed one on their sixguns. I have read that both Colt and Smith & Wesson refused to put a caliber name that contained a competitor's name on their sixguns, so they often used an almost identical bullet, but with a different caliber name. I related that to the false DW/Elgin Gates claims of parentage. Mistake. I believe in my mind's eye I only noticed the names one at a time and the name seemed to be what I expected or wanted; no inconsistency. But now, when I see them both on the DW hawgleg, I realize how clueless I can be sometimes wondering through life. Prescut ***** Prescut.... Dan Wesson Arms called the cartridge by its name, .357 Maximum, registered by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI). Elgin bent DWAâs arm to call the Model 40 the â357 Super Mag.â If memory serves, DWA was not a member of SAAMI. Nevertheless, DWA would only give the Model 40 its correct cartridge designation. This is the opposite of corporate vanity. On the separate subject of a firearms manufacturer refusing to put the name of another firearm manufacturer on a gun, a recent obvious example is seen on Glock pistols, where âS&Wâ is omitted from â.40 S&W,â and â.357 SIGâ is changed to â.357 Auto.â David Bradshaw |
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skeen
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 85
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Post by skeen on Oct 26, 2023 17:38:56 GMT -5
Alright, snagged one, my first DW revolver. đ It came with the extra barrel, but no barrel wrench.   I thought I'd gotten a nice set of DW Zebra wood grips too, but now, I'm not so sure. The box end is marked "DW-L." I almost feel like they'd go, if I tapped with a rubber mallet. Are those Small size grips? Either way, the rubber Pachmayr grips gotta go. I much prefer the feel of wood versus squishy rubber. If anyone has a set of DW wooden grips they'd sell, hit me up. đ    |
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