Load Testing Technique Help.

[LeverGunner]

I'd like to ask everyone's opinions. First the gun is a blackhawk in 44 special, and the Keith load is normally where my tolerance for recoil is when shooting supported.  While I don't have anything that has heavier recoil currently, I want to work on my technique so that when I do get a gun with more recoil, I have a solid foundation already.  

I haven't been able to find a comfortable position at the bench for testing. I've tried various heights of support, I try to support my hands and keep the same two handed hold I normally use. Elevated hand rest, with my elbows supported, the right elbow being raised too. I get decent groups that way, but I cannot get more than a few cylinders full before my wrist start bothering me.

I have carpal tunnel already from work so I am already fighting an uphill battle.   Suggestions?   

So I normally test from a seated back rested position, supporting just from one knee. I don't shoot as well that way of course but I can shoot longer before my wrists tell me its time to stop.    

I recently learned that I could stand and support my hands off the car roof and it does pretty good actually.    Not as stable, but I can control recoil better.   Right now, this is just initial testing for load development at close range 15 to 25 yards,   but it will move farther back as I find loads that suit.        I have been wanting to test loads at 50 and 75, and now after reading some in the 100 yards with Iron thread, farther.   

I usually shoot some load tests then switch to offhand as that's what I really enjoy, and what doesn't hurt.   But if I can find a better way I'll definitely do some testing at longer range to prove my loads and technique.    

I'd appreciate any advice, or links to discussions that have already hashed this out.  

Thanks,  
John

[potatojudge]

I like a bag under the butt of the gun and another at the front of the frame, then padding for my elbows on the bench. For me, this is most comfortable and stable especially for elevation. A "V" shaped front bag can help with side to side wobble and horizontal spread. Make sure to protect your bags from cylinder gap blast.

Some bags have velcro straps on them, if so you can slip it over the barrel to mitigate some recoil. Curious what opinions others have of this slightly sketchy method.

If you can, get your carpal tunnel treated. Release is a simple procedure. Wrist splints at night are what people in my field recommend (my patient population has self limiting carpal tunnel and don't need surgery). Changing your work ergonomics can prevent worsening.

Look into RW Grip Frames for recoil mitigating grip frame swaps. Ronnie will fit and finish the frame for a very reasonable fee. This is for when you get a bigger kicker, of course.

[bigbrowndog]

I would say you’ve found a way to shoot accurately, you just cannot shoot extended times due to your wrists. So limit shooting to a few cylinder fulls and take a break or quit for the day. I did the same when testing loads for my 500Max, just to keep from anticipating recoil and develop a flinch. I’d shoot 10-15 rounds, and switch to a lighter recoiling gun for awhile and then go back and shoot 10-15 rounds. Since I am more interested in what is possible for hunting accuracy most of my testing was simply 3 round groups, and keeping an eye on whether a bad chamber existed causing groups to open up. Typically on a custom gun you don’t have that issue, but a stock gun can. Shooting 3 shot groups allowed me enough to check accuracy at 50-75-100 then take a break. Once a load was found then I could shoot 5 or 10 and see what my tolerance was for recoil and maintaining accuracy. When I do hunting practice I typically set out various targets at various random ranges and take one shot only which is what normally happens in a hunting situation. I prefer frame supported, elbows supported with either a pack or other support.

Trapr

[seminolewind]

Mar 13, 2023 14:01:29 GMT -5 potatojudge said:

I like a bag under the butt of the gun and another at the front of the frame, then padding for my elbows on the bench. For me, this is most comfortable and stable especially for elevation. A "V" shaped front bag can help with side to side wobble and horizontal spread.

This pretty much describes how I set up at the bench, except I use a Bog Pod Rapid Shooting Rest Tripod adjustable from 7" to 11" for the front rest. I do use a piece of leather to pad the V rest on the tripod, but even without the leather it is more durable than a bag. The adjustable height front rest is the key to getting comfortable at a bench, along with a bench height and seat height that let's you sit mostly upright with your elbows on pads on the bench. With the right position and rests, you can be comfortable, consistent and handle recoil well.

[Odin]

I developed a bit of wrist ache after long sessions with the 475L. Instead of limiting the volume of shots fired (which, in all honesty, never even occurred to me as an option), I began taping my wrists with athletic tape. It seemed to help stabilize the wrist bones to some extent, and the pain after range outings disappeared.

[2 Dogs]

You have a private message from me.

And don’t believe these guys! I’m no trade pirate!! :-)

[potatojudge]

Mar 13, 2023 14:38:27 GMT -5 seminolewind said:

Mar 13, 2023 14:01:29 GMT -5 potatojudge said:

I like a bag under the butt of the gun and another at the front of the frame, then padding for my elbows on the bench. For me, this is most comfortable and stable especially for elevation. A "V" shaped front bag can help with side to side wobble and horizontal spread.

This pretty much describes how I set up at the bench, except I use a Bog Pod Rapid Shooting Rest Tripod adjustable from 7" to 11" for the front rest. I do use a piece of leather to pad the V rest on the tripod, but even without the leather it is more durable than a bag. The adjustable height front rest is the key to getting comfortable at a bench, along with a bench height and seat height that let's you sit mostly upright with your elbows on pads on the bench. With the right position and rests, you can be comfortable, consistent and handle recoil well.

Great point that I overlooked in my description. Make yourself comfortable. Don't try to lean or balance or twist or contort to sit and shoot. Arrange your bench, seat, and rest for natural positioning. 

[AxeHandle]

I have a personal rule to NEVER shoot any of the evil stuff from the bench. I hold the gun off hand where it can move! The more you limit where it can go the more recoil your bones get to eat. I may not shoot as well as I might from a solid rest but I enjoy shooting and hope to do it a long time.

[taffin]

Mar 13, 2023 12:00:34 GMT -5 LeverGunner said:

I'd like to ask everyone's opinions. First the gun is a blackhawk in 44 special, and the Keith load is normally where my tolerance for recoil is when shooting supported.  While I don't have anything that has heavier recoil currently, I want to work on my technique so that when I do get a gun with more recoil, I have a solid foundation already.  

I haven't been able to find a comfortable position at the bench for testing. I've tried various heights of support, I try to support my hands and keep the same two handed hold I normally use. Elevated hand rest, with my elbows supported, the right elbow being raised too. I get decent groups that way, but I cannot get more than a few cylinders full before my wrist start bothering me.

I have carpal tunnel already from work so I am already fighting an uphill battle.   Suggestions?   

So I normally test from a seated back rested position, supporting just from one knee. I don't shoot as well that way of course but I can shoot longer before my wrists tell me its time to stop.    

I recently learned that I could stand and support my hands off the car roof and it does pretty good actually.    Not as stable, but I can control recoil better.   Right now, this is just initial testing for load development at close range 15 to 25 yards,   but it will move farther back as I find loads that suit.        I have been wanting to test loads at 50 and 75, and now after reading some in the 100 yards with Iron thread, farther.   

I usually shoot some load tests then switch to offhand as that's what I really enjoy, and what doesn't hurt.   But if I can find a better way I'll definitely do some testing at longer range to prove my loads and technique.    

I'd appreciate any advice, or links to discussions that have already hashed this out.  

Thanks,  
John

SOLID BENCH;SOLID REST
postimg.cc/D4yN3Qtz

[LeverGunner]

I appreciate all the replies. I still have a lot to learn, and a lot of powder to burn. I will give a lot of these suggestions a try and see what works for me.

And...2dogs IS a trade pirate. I am too though.

[2 Dogs]

Mar 13, 2023 20:54:25 GMT -5 LeverGunner said:

I appreciate all the replies. I still have a lot to learn, and a lot of powder to burn. I will give a lot of these suggestions a try and see what works for me.

And...2dogs IS a trade pirate. I am too though.

So much for taking advantage of the new guy…

Thanks for the visit!!

[sixshot]

Make sure you don't get your shooting rest too low, a lot of people make the mistake of getting it the same height as they would if they were shooting a rifle, you can't do that because your head is too low. Get your rest higher or even shoot from a standing, rested position. You don't want all that recoil coming back into your shoulders & neck.
If I'm shooting off of a table I use several sandbags & put a light piece of leather over the top so I don't burn the bags & then kind of "V" the gun down into the leather. My wrists are sitting on soft sandbags so that I can see the sights without having to move my head, I'm already lined up with the sights in a natural position. The bottom of my hands touch the bags, but the gun does not.
Now, after you are satisfied that you are zeroed at 25 yds, or 50 yds, etc. you will have to fine tune your gun because it will not be zeroed for field shooting, you will have to make minor adjustments in the field depending on how you shoot, offhand, sitting against a tree using a Barranti sling, kneeling, etc. And the most important thing of all, you must have a good trigger or you just wasted a bunch of time & ammo, good triggers are a must.

Dick

[x101airborne]

To get relief from my carpal tunnel I used to cut "Aspercreme plus Lidocaine" patches into strips and tape them to my wrist and palm with athletic stretch tape. The relief is awesome! For bench work, look for a good padded glove that you can cut the fingers off of. Carpal tunnel is a terrible mistress. I have had one wrist operated on and it was the best thing I have ever done for my body.

[bula]

With little bench experience, I am reading ALL here. Thanks. 

[bradshaw]

Levergun John.... time to dig deep through threads & posts on Singleactions and research handgun marksmanship.

Basic COORDINATIONS
* Balance----weight evenly distributed to maximize bone support over muscle tension.
* Body Alignment to target----some call it “natural point of aim.” Applies to all shooting positions, including from bench and artificial rest. To put it Country Simple, don’t push gun to target, adjust body to target. (Learning to shoot out-of-position comes later.)
* Breathing----deep breathing oxygenates eyes & muscle. Deep breathing tames nerve pressure.
* Comfortable grip----a death grip invites tremor. More shots are thrown by flinch than by poor sight alignment.
* Sight Alignment----the 3 focal planes, in order of importance: 1) front sight, sharp; 2) rear sight, slight fuzz; 3) target, fuzzy.
* Sight Focus----sharp focus on front sight at squeeze.
* Eye & Mind Focus----the eye looks (sight picture), the mind sees (target).
* Trigger Squeeze----a) smooth accumulation of pressure, straight back from sight to eye. Squeeze in a straight line as to touch trigger finger to eye. Follow Through----you see the sights so the bullet sees the target. (What’s your hurry to look at the target while the bullet’s still in the barrel?)
* Sharp sight squeezes trigger. Only fresh oxygen clears eyes. The eyes are the first organ to go into oxygen debt.
* Call Your Shot----keep reading your sight picture at hammer fall.

DRY FIRE
By toning mind & muscle, dry fire tones the coordinations of marksmanship. TECHNIQUE is an orchestra of coordinations. Warm up with dry fire before each shooting session.

Work up not down. Develop marksmanship with .22 rimfire or light centerfire loads.

Bench tips
* As Dick Thompson, aka sixshot, advises, it’s better to bring gun to eye level, than to lower eyes to gun level. Our face is called a “face” because we use it to face the target. Face at angle induces eye strain.
* Elbows slightly bent. Locked elbows, especially with heavy recoil or on a bench, can injure nerve, tendon, cartilage, bone. When shooting a revolver from the bench, I pad the edge of the bench and keep elbows behind bench, not on it.
* Dry fire e shots (minimum) to assure SIGHTS DO NOT MOVE during SQUEEZE & FOLLOW THROUGH.

Forget heavy .44 loads for now. Shoot light .44 Specials.
David Bradshaw