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Post by outpost75 on Feb 20, 2023 23:52:33 GMT -5
Tom at Accurate Molds cut 45-264H for my Colt New Service .455
Long parallel nose is intended to fit cylinder throats when crimped in the shorter Mk2 cases for use in longer .455 Colt/Eley/Mk1 chambers.
3.5 grains of Bullseye approximates service velocity in Starline brass.
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Post by 45MAN on Feb 21, 2023 7:21:03 GMT -5
470 EVANS SHOULD BE ABLE TO LEND A HAND. HE HAS POSTED SOME ON THE 455 BEFORE.
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Post by taffin on Feb 21, 2023 8:56:05 GMT -5
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Post by 470evans on Feb 21, 2023 12:08:32 GMT -5
Hello, I posted this on a different forum and you may find it helpful. As far as the 455 New Services, I found them to shoot best with Keith Style Bullets. I tried the Webley Style but they didn't shoot as well. Also please note, some of my targets were shot with MKI cases which I prefer to the MKII cases but you have to use what you can find. "I would invest in a set of - pin gauges to accurately measure throat diameters. You can find them on Amazon for sale. These have been a great investment and I use them on all my revolvers. After you measure your throats and have the proper diameter, order some sizing dies from NOE, they are cheap and work well. 45Cal Push Rod (45PR) | NOE Bullet Moulds45Cal .456 Body Bushing (B456) | NOE Bullet Moulds45Cal .455 Body Bushing (B455) | NOE Bullet Moulds001 Push Through Size Die Body | NOE Bullet MouldsYou can also buy the Lee Sizer but you're limited to the sizes they offer, in this case .454. Lee Bullet Sizing Die Kit 452 DiameterPlay with a few different sized bullets. I have typically gotten the best results at or slightly larger than throat diameter. I would worry less about bore diameter and focus on chamber throat diameter. The typical expander die included in a 45 ACP or 45 Colt die set will size the case too small since they are set up for a .452 bullet. You will be sizing your bullet down further when you seat it in the case which defeats the purpose of correctly sizing your bullets in the first place! I first read about this in Dave Scovill's book "Colt's Single Action Army, Loading and Shooting the Peacemaker" but struggled to believe it so I ran a test. I sized a lead bullet to .456 and then seated it in a case that had been sized with the regular expander plug in my die set which measured .449. Once seated, I used an inertia puller to pull the bullet and the .456 bullet now measured .454. You can call RCBS and have them send you an expander from their 45 Colt Cowboy set or you can use an expander die from a 455 Webley die set. This sounds like a lot of work and $$$ but it's a pretty small investment to get the most out of these great old guns. I also use a 16-1 alloy for my bullets and powder coat them prior to sizing them. Some results from my Colts with .456 chambers, I use .456 sized bullets."       |
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awp101
.401 Bobcat
They call me…Andrew
Posts: 2,757
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Post by awp101 on Mar 9, 2023 20:44:39 GMT -5
Those New Service look a lot better than mine does!  |
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Post by oddshooter on Mar 14, 2023 12:51:18 GMT -5
470evans,
I had the same issue loading a SW 25-5 with seriously large chambers in that cylinder.
I was able to order some large diameter bullets that would fit the chambers.
But every time I seated a correctly sized large diameter bullet, it was swaged down several thousands by the smaller diameter brass case. My solution was to get a larger Lyman "M" die which makes a larger, correctly sized, "nest" for the larger bullet.
Don't forget about the "spring back" of the brass case to a smaller diameter after using the M die as an expander. So get one size larger than you think when ordering.
After pin gauging the chambers and slugging the bore:
Just as an example let's say you want your bullet of .455 to stay .455 after being seated and crimped.
If it's .455 before seating and say .453 after seating; order/make an M die with plug of say .458. That's .003 over normal. You need .002 more expansion to get to .455; and you need .001 or .002 beyond that for spring back of the brass case. So you need a .458 or .459 plug for the expander die. RCBS is the only company I know that offers to help finding a correctly sized plug for the expander.
I also went with 2 different crimps; profile and/or roll depending on what swaged the bullet the least in the case.
The entire exercise is to finish with a correctly sized diameter bullet for the cylinder chambers and barrel groove. Solving this issue requires you to pull bullets after every step and measure their size. You have to find out what's going on; when does it get swaged down.
It's not easy and many folks give-up before resolution. A little patience and a lot of attention to detail will get you home.
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Post by boolitdesigner on Mar 14, 2023 14:49:09 GMT -5
470evans, I had the same issue loading a SW 25-5 with seriously large chambers in that cylinder. The entire exercise is to finish with a correctly sized diameter bullet for the cylinder chambers and barrel groove. Solving this issue requires you to pull bullets after every step and measure their size. You have to find out what's going on; when does it get swaged down. Prescut There is another solution. Get a mold that is a hollow base configuration. You can load it so it fits, in whatever undersize condition that is warranted. When shot, it's base expands to fit and it shoots very well. MP molds has a Webley hollow base bullet that duplicates the original Webley bullet and has an earlier version that is flat nosed. Both work quite well in over sized barrels and in undersized cylinders. |
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Post by oddshooter on Mar 15, 2023 13:09:44 GMT -5
boolitdesigner,
Fascinating !!! Your post always catch my attention.
However, I believe the issue from 470evans about Oversized cylinders rather than undersized cylinders as you wrote. He was trying to use larger than normal diameter boolits.
470evans wrote "I would worry less about bore diameter and focus on chamber throat diameter." From that I assumed he was more concerned with oversized chambers/cylinders and trying to seat larger diameter bullets. My post was based on that idea.
I assume the hollow base boolit works well for Oversized barrels with Undersized boolits going through undersized chambers as you stated. The boolit would exit the chambers in an undersized condition without wobbling; and would then open up (obturate )after hitting the forcing cone because of the hollow base expanding easier to fill the grooves. I can follow the logic although I have never used hollow base for that effect.
My problems have always come from Oversized chambers and not undersized. Oversized chambers caused the boolit to wooble through the exit hole and hit the forcing cone offcenter and not flying straight. There was no solution for the cylinder itself (you can't add steel); only larger boolits. Normal sized boolits did not seem to stop wobbling and I could clearly see the results with huge group sizes.
If encountering Undersized chambers that caused problems , I have had the chambers reamed and polished to standard, consistent diameters. Then I can use normal sized boolits which will fly straight and obturate fine in the barrel.
Of course, I have had leading occur from undersized boolits when they didn't fill the grooves completely and allowed hot gases to blow by. That I try to stop at all costs.
I have got to try your technique with hollow base !!
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Post by boolitdesigner on Mar 15, 2023 15:11:52 GMT -5
Odd conditions whether from oversize to undersize or undersize to oversize seem to have the same effect.... provided your alloy is soft enough for the skirt to expand properly (S&W 1955, S&W 25, Colt and S&W 1917, 45 Colt Anacondas etc.). I've done about every conceivable combination with this and it seems to cure the problem. One of the most popular is 1917 handguns with a washed out bore (that is just a hint of a spiral in the bore) that basically produces little to no accuracy with solid bullets (either jacketed or cast). With hollow base you get quite reasonable accuracy basically on the sights. The results with oversize barrels seems to show that the skirt expands before it engages the barrel forcing cone.............. this is from tests where I've recovered the bullets to see what happened.
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Post by oddshooter on Mar 19, 2023 12:32:54 GMT -5
Got it. When you wrote that the skirt expands before hitting the forcing cone, the logic fell into place.
Now I need to find a couple of different sixguns with poor dimensions to try this experiment myself.
Thanks for your patience. More grist for the mill never hurts.
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