edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,153
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Post by edk on Jan 11, 2023 20:48:51 GMT -5
I don’t have any “taboo” Contender cartridges however I see no harm in them for the discerning handloader. A different perspective would be for example having the heavy hitters (375jdj, 45-70) chambered in Encore barrels eliminating risk to the frame as well as being less abusive to the body. Of course the both of those can be leaned on a bit harder when hand loading for the Encore. Now some would argue going bigger still in the Encore but with no African big five or equivalent in my future there is no need here.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jan 11, 2023 21:44:50 GMT -5
I built a 14" Contender barrel in .225 Winchester a long time ago. Went with a slow twist barrel for 50 - 55 gr bullets. You guys now have me thinking of a fast twist barrel for heavier 22's. And like others, I've never stretched a Contender frame with a .225 or .257 Dart. Of course, they can be stretched....it just takes more than most realize. BTW, great thread. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by pacecars on Jan 11, 2023 21:57:28 GMT -5
I built a 14" Contender barrel in .225 Winchester a long time ago. Went with a fast twist barrel for 50 - 55 gr bullets. You guys now have me thinking of a slow twist barrel for heavier 22's. And like others, I've never stretched a Contender frame with a .225 or .257 Dart. Of course, they can be stretched....it just takes more than most realize. BTW, great thread. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" I think that is backwards. Fast twist would be for heavier/longer bullets
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Post by pacecars on Jan 11, 2023 22:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by Lee Martin on Jan 11, 2023 22:06:04 GMT -5
I built a 14" Contender barrel in .225 Winchester a long time ago. Went with a fast twist barrel for 50 - 55 gr bullets. You guys now have me thinking of a slow twist barrel for heavier 22's. And like others, I've never stretched a Contender frame with a .225 or .257 Dart. Of course, they can be stretched....it just takes more than most realize. BTW, great thread. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" I think that is backwards. Fast twist would be for heavier/longer bullets Long day. You're absolutely right. I edited the above post. Thanks for catching that. -Lee www.singleactions.com "Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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Post by pacecars on Jan 11, 2023 22:56:41 GMT -5
I kinda figured that. I am pretty sure if anyone on here knows what they are doing it would be you
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 11, 2023 23:10:00 GMT -5
“.... original actions as opposed to the newer, stronger G2.” ----Huey
*****
I don’t know when Thompson/Center beefed up the Contender. Various primordial steel shooters stoked early Contenders with Rocks & Dynamite to topple full-foot rams, often warped and cratered, stood on all manner of stands which helped soak up lead. Dave Ingram developed loads hot enough to speed the reload by auto-ejecting the fired case over his shoulder. Warren Center saw rounds has Contender was being chambered for, saw his pistols stoked up, and set about strengthening the gun. IHMSA action, Warren told me, caused him to strengthen the WATER TABLE on the receiver. You could call that the cradle, especially where it joins the STANDING BREECH.
This and other revisions, including the SPLIT BOLT, were in production when the 7mm Thompson/Center Ugalde was introduced in 1979 (a.k.a. 7mm TCU or 7mmx.223 w/40-degree shoulder.) This ws the frame most seen in silhouette. I’m not experienced with the Contender G2, but it came after.
JD Jones is no stranger to Rocks & Dynamite. That said, his innovative single shot pistol cartridges stand out in the game fields. David Bradshaw
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Post by Encore64 on Jan 12, 2023 5:39:02 GMT -5
I built a 14" Contender barrel in .225 Winchester a long time ago. Went with a slow twist barrel for 50 - 55 gr bullets. You guys now have me thinking of a fast twist barrel for heavier 22's. And like others, I've never stretched a Contender frame with a .225 or .257 Dart. Of course, they can be stretched....it just takes more than most realize. BTW, great thread. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" I had mine built with a 75 grn VMax seated to the bottom of the neck. The only part of the bullet below the neck was the boattail. There are four basic types of Contender Frames, Type 4 being the strongest by only a small margin. Of course, the Contender's weakness was solved with the G2.
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Post by rleprechaun on Jan 12, 2023 7:56:53 GMT -5
I own the above mentioned JDJ contender barrels(375JDJ and 338JDJ). I killed a doll sheep many years ago with 30-30 Ackley Improved. Don't count out the Gary Reeder 30-30 based cartridges. I own 3, 7GNR, 30GNR and 355 GNR. I form 7GNR by chambering a 7X30 Waters. I form the other 2 by chambering 30-30 factory loads. Yes I form 355GNR by chambering 30-30 factory loads, won't group, but sure is easy, and comes out perfect every time. Might consider 260 Rem. in Encore. Very simple with factory load.
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 12, 2023 11:20:03 GMT -5
“.... There are four basic types of Contender Frames, Type 4 being the strongest by only a small margin.
Of course, the Contender's weakness was solved with the G2.” ----Encore64
*****
Huey.... please describe the four different Contender frames, with a timeline, if you have it. Also, what makes the G2 stronger;. Is it mass or design? Does the nickel plated frame constitute a variant? (Difficulty in making a stainless Contender, I was told, led to the nickeled receiver and barrels.)
Warren Center did not like the idea of a .308 in the Contender, as its water table limits barrel diameter to .800-inch. Most of my experience is with the 7mm TCU, my favorite chambering, mild mannered and efficient, even in 10-inch. Easy to load from .223 Rem, with match accuracy from fire-forming loads. Thank you, David Bradshaw
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Post by contender on Jan 12, 2023 11:29:30 GMT -5
This is the kind of thread I pop some popcorn, sit back & enjoy. Good info & perspective here. While I don't have any of the T/C barrels listed above,, (I've stuck mostly with more common calibers,) I've often studied some of the JDJ calibers, as well as the Ackley ones.
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Post by potatojudge on Jan 12, 2023 11:41:30 GMT -5
I have a Contender carbine barrel by Bullberry in 300 Savage that I haven't had a chance to work with yet. The specialty pistols forum (RIP) guys recommended book minimum loads as Contender max loads with no exception for the G2 frame. I suspect that's a very conservative approach, but a 125-150 grain ballistic tip doesn't need the extra speed to work.
The reality is, the 30-30AI is a better round for the Contender than the 300 Savage. For that matter, the 25 Bullberry or similar is the better option vs a 250AI, both of which I shoot in pistols a- Contender and MOA respectively.
The gains going beyond 30-30 wildcats are a worthwhile pursuit and good fun, but don't fill a need for most of us. The 7-30 is just so convenient.
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Post by Encore64 on Jan 12, 2023 11:47:20 GMT -5
On the Original Contender, there was Four Basic Types. I'm at work and posting just what I have in memory.
The T1 had the pivot pin all the way forward on the trigger guard which did not allow for easier opening.
The T2 had the pivot pin mid mounted which gave much more leverage and at one time was referred to (unofficially) as the Easy Opening Frame.
The T3 saw a new hammer. Instead of using a screwdriver on the face of the hammer to switch from rimfire to centerfire, you had a switch on top of the hammer. It was three position rotating type and the center position provided a hammer block safety. The earlier model had a crossbolt activated safety. The T3 Safety eliminated the need for separate safety and firing pin selectors.
The T4 is the rarest and my favorite of the Original Contenders. The Puma so traditional to the Contenders was lightly etched into the side instead of being cast so deep. While not as attractive as the earlier models, it was stronger due to increased wall thickness outside the barrel release cuts.
That was the weak point of the Original Contender. The pin that runs thru the barrel bolt had to have a slot cut down thru the inside of the frame to allow the gun to close. That thinned area is where the frames stretched.
The G2 solved that issue. They put a thickened band that starts beside the hammer. It runs down and turns forward thickening the outside walls over these cuts. If the top can't stretch, neither can the rest of the frame. This feature can be found on the Encore too.
There were many sub variations. The American Eagle, Flatside, Armour Alloy and many for different events and organizations. But, all were basically one of the above types.
Warren Center was even against the 357 Magnum in his creation. That's why the originals in 1967/68 were chambered for the 38 Special.
Hal Swiggett told me he had the first Contender chambered in 45-70. I can't verify this, but what I was told.
He said it took a lot of convincing to get that one built.
A guy named Jay Turner (I think) used to write about Contenders in Handloader. He was to Contenders what Brian Pearce is to revolvers.
All of this is from memory and prone to have a few errors as are any of my posts.
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Post by Encore64 on Jan 12, 2023 11:55:26 GMT -5
" I have a Contender carbine barrel by Bullberry in 300 Savage that I haven't had a chance to work with yet."
Fred Smith at Bullberry built my 300 Savage as well...
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Post by Lee Martin on Jan 12, 2023 12:17:33 GMT -5
Huey - I assume the frame shown below is the T-4 you noted above? -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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