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Post by RDW on Dec 4, 2022 17:27:03 GMT -5
Any ideas on how that grip frame compares with a standard bisley, #5, or any of Ronnie's other frames? It is a Keith Number 5 plus Length with a smooth radius on the bottom. Bobbys Vision and a lot of prototyping. It gives the pinky finger a nice home and the middle knuckle plenty of room. It has a Bisley Large round Trigger guard and tons of strength gusseting. Angled just right and feels wonderful with a small as well as a Large hand. It has just the perfect in between feel. The Panels are a type of paper micarta that freedom arms recomended by brand. I think you would really like it. R
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Post by longoval on Dec 4, 2022 23:33:13 GMT -5
Goodness, I love the front and rear sights. I have one of Doc's Outfitter holsters and I love it.
I do not like how Bobby always leaves the trigger guard blocky on his RW frames but I guess it is his unique style. Very cool package all in all.
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kooz
.327 Meteor
Posts: 618
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Post by kooz on Dec 5, 2022 10:10:49 GMT -5
Looks like a pretty nice set up, not a fan of that front sight though....belongs on an old .22 rifle . I would have gone with an FA front sight .
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cubrock
.401 Bobcat
TLA fanatic and all around nice guy....
Posts: 2,871
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Post by cubrock on Dec 6, 2022 22:16:59 GMT -5
Good looking for sure, but (correct me if I'm wrong) it shouldn't have a drag ring around the cylinder for a new gun like that. My cheap Bounty Hunter doesn't have one. A New Model Ruger single action gets that drag ring in a hurry due to how the action works. Just part of the deal.
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Post by bushog on Dec 6, 2022 22:23:20 GMT -5
Not for me….
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Post by kings6 on Dec 6, 2022 22:34:57 GMT -5
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Post by 1horseman on Dec 7, 2022 11:19:17 GMT -5
Good looking for sure, but (correct me if I'm wrong) it shouldn't have a drag ring around the cylinder for a new gun like that. My cheap Bounty Hunter doesn't have one. A New Model Ruger single action gets that drag ring in a hurry due to how the action works. Just part of the deal. I must admit that I have somewhat limited experience with SA revolvers. I own only four. Two identical (consecutive) 1858 Remington New army made by Uberti (purchased new in 1988), with hundreds of BP rounds out of them. For about a year (14 months), I have new model Ruger Single Six that I shoot exclusively with .22Mag. It was given to me as a gift and was abused (dropped and had a broken grip, dented ERS, dented trigger guard) but not shot much. I have about 100 rounds out of it so far. For a couple of months now, I own Weihrauch Bounty Hunter in .44Mag (about 30 rounds out of it so far). Neither one of these have the drag ring on them. I also have two DAs (S&W 10, and 66) that I shoot exclusively in SA mode. No drag lines either. IF they would have the lines, it wouldn't bother me (I'd retime them by myself) but when I saw that pic of a new revolver, the drag ring was my first observation. I understand the gun in picture was "shot a lot", but how much is a "lot"? Timing is surely messed up on it, which tells me that it was used with inappropriate ammo, or it was made with inferior internal parts that wore out prematurely. My opinion is that if the revolver shows these lines, it's either not taken care of, or it's not a quality made piece. I might be wrong, of course. I've seen myself being wrong before.
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Post by Encore64 on Dec 7, 2022 11:36:30 GMT -5
A New Model Ruger single action gets that drag ring in a hurry due to how the action works. Just part of the deal. I must admit that I have somewhat limited experience with SA revolvers. I own only four. Two identical (consecutive) 1858 Remington New army made by Uberti (purchased new in 1988), with hundreds of BP rounds out of them. For about a year (14 months), I have new model Ruger Single Six that I shoot exclusively with .22Mag. It was given to me as a gift and was abused (dropped and had a broken grip, dented ERS, dented trigger guard) but not shot much. I have about 100 rounds out of it so far. For a couple of months now, I own Weihrauch Bounty Hunter in .44Mag (about 30 rounds out of it so far). Neither one of these have the drag ring on them. I also have two DAs (S&W 10, and 66) that I shoot exclusively in SA mode. No drag lines either. IF they would have the lines, it wouldn't bother me (I'd retime them by myself) but when I saw that pic of a new revolver, the drag ring was my first observation. I understand the gun in picture was "shot a lot", but how much is a "lot"? Timing is surely messed up on it, which tells me that it was used with inappropriate ammo, or it was made with inferior internal parts that wore out prematurely. My opinion is that if the revolver shows these lines, it's either not taken care of, or it's not a quality made piece. I might be wrong, of course. I've seen myself being wrong before. If your experience with Single Actions is that limited and you can retime a Ruger NM Blackhawk to that extent, call me impressed. I've built quite a few Customs based on the NM Blackhawks and no Custom Smith has ever accomplished that. Ditto on owning a fairly extensive selection of NM Blachawks and Single Sixes...
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sj6g
.30 Stingray
Posts: 114
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Post by sj6g on Dec 7, 2022 11:38:12 GMT -5
I am certain Bobby Tyler times his guns correctly. I have a Linebaugh and Bowen NM Rugers that have a drag line also. None of them are known to use inferior parts or methods.
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Post by Lee Martin on Dec 7, 2022 11:57:16 GMT -5
One way to develop the line is when shutting the gate in-between chambers. Then by rotating the cylinder into battery, the bolt rubs. Pulling the hammer back a bit is the workaround. Cocking the gun is another story and entails modifying internals. I have extended the hammer plunger on a few of our customs so the bolt re-engages just before the next stop. Otherwise, the plunger cams off the latch and the bolt springs back up early. I've seen cylinder marks on many top shelf custom NM Blackhawks. Most builders, and buyers for that matter, could care less about a faint drag mark. I'm one of them. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time"
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cubrock
.401 Bobcat
TLA fanatic and all around nice guy....
Posts: 2,871
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Post by cubrock on Dec 7, 2022 12:00:38 GMT -5
A New Model Ruger single action gets that drag ring in a hurry due to how the action works. Just part of the deal. I must admit that I have somewhat limited experience with SA revolvers. I own only four. Two identical (consecutive) 1858 Remington New army made by Uberti (purchased new in 1988), with hundreds of BP rounds out of them. For about a year (14 months), I have new model Ruger Single Six that I shoot exclusively with .22Mag. It was given to me as a gift and was abused (dropped and had a broken grip, dented ERS, dented trigger guard) but not shot much. I have about 100 rounds out of it so far. For a couple of months now, I own Weihrauch Bounty Hunter in .44Mag (about 30 rounds out of it so far). Neither one of these have the drag ring on them. I also have two DAs (S&W 10, and 66) that I shoot exclusively in SA mode. No drag lines either. IF they would have the lines, it wouldn't bother me (I'd retime them by myself) but when I saw that pic of a new revolver, the drag ring was my first observation. I understand the gun in picture was "shot a lot", but how much is a "lot"? Timing is surely messed up on it, which tells me that it was used with inappropriate ammo, or it was made with inferior internal parts that wore out prematurely. My opinion is that if the revolver shows these lines, it's either not taken care of, or it's not a quality made piece. I might be wrong, of course. I've seen myself being wrong before. A New Model Ruger action is apples and oranges compared to "traditional" single actions, such as your Ubertis. The New Model action is designed to drop the bolt on the cylinder well before the leade into the bolt notch. I've never seen a S&W that didn't get a drag line with shooting. As with the New Model Rugers, they are designed for the bolt to drop on the cylinder well before the leade. Roy Jinks was once asked what it meant that the asker's Smith revolver had a drag line. Jinks answered something to the effect of "It means your revolver is operating correctly and as designed."
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 7, 2022 12:14:05 GMT -5
“.... admit that I have somewhat limited experience with SA revolvers.... Two identical (consecutive) 1858 Remington New army made by Uberti (purchased new in 1988).... new model Ruger Single Six that I shoot exclusively with .22Mag.... Weihrauch Bounty Hunter in .44Mag (about 30 rounds out of it so far). Neither one of these have the drag ring on them. I also have two DAs (S&W 10, and 66) that I shoot exclusively in SA mode. No drag lines either.
IF they would have the lines, it wouldn't bother me (I'd retime them by myself) but when I saw that pic of a new revolver, the drag ring was my first observation. I understand the gun in picture was "shot a lot", but how much is a "lot"? Timing is surely messed up on it, which tells me that it was used with inappropriate ammo, or it was made with inferior internal parts that wore out prematurely. My opinion is that if the revolver shows these lines, it's either not taken care of, or it's not a quality made piece.
I might be wrong....” ----1horseman
*****
!horseman.... “I might be wrong.”
You’re right about that. I had to look up the EEA Weilrauch Bounty Hunter. A look at the manufacturer’s schematic, it’s lockwork copies the 1873 Colt Peacemaker----with the addition of a transfer bar to prevent the hammer contacting the revolver’s floating firing pin, unless the trigger is pulled. It is a form of PASSIVE SAFETY system, albeit much less sophisticated than Ruger’s New Model lockwork.
As to a drag line indicating an inferior revolver, may I suggest you lay in a competition-worthy lifetime supply of ammunition to demonstrate immortality of a Weirauch Bounty Hunter .44 Mag against the rattletrap Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Mag. In fact, in an attempt to sneak up on the durability record of Ruger revolvers spanning thousands of IHMSA sanctioned tournaments, it would be better to assemble----at minimum----a few hundred each Ruger and Weilrauch six-shooters to be shot with multiple lifetime supplies of magnum ammunition.... to see how deep the Weilrauch Bounty Hunter buries the Ruger.
I’m just now stroking an old S&W Model 19 .357 Mag. Would not trade it for a brand new one. The revolver made a few in-person visits to Smith & Wesson. Barrel was set back to eliminate forcing cone erosion. Cylinder replaced. Various lockwork replaced, although I believe original hammer & trigger continue. Dead clean single action. Dead smooth double action. Perfect timing, with early carry-up in SA & DA. It locks up tight as a bull’s butt at fly time. And, low and behold, it’s cylinder wears a drag line.
While I haven’t handled the Tyler Featherweight Vaquero, I suspect its lockwork in order. David Bradshaw
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Post by 1horseman on Dec 7, 2022 13:01:40 GMT -5
Gentlemen,
I had no intention of offending anyone or dissing your favorites. My "limited" experience with firearms is 25 years wearing a uniform and shooting variety of weapons since I was a toddler.
Three weeks after I moved here, the shop I was storing all my belongings was set on fire, and burned to the ground. With it ,....two gun safes. They "protected" my firearms from serious damage, but they all had smoke damage, and rust from the steam (firehoses). Long story short, most of them ended up in the 55 gal drum filled with diesel (minus stocks). It took me two years to restore them all. Above mentioned Ubertis were rusted almost shut, and totally inoperable. They work as intended now (as do all of them).
Somebody said that he never saw S&W without drag line.....well I can show you two (that I own). Also,....New Model Single Six (manufactured in 1972 according to Ruger....got email from them), total round count unk,.....no line. So why would I make this up?
"Proving the longevity" of the HWM? To whom? I own it for TWO months, have 30 rounds out of it, and I'll be dead before 100 rounds go through that gun. All I know about it, is what I've red on the web (mostly positive). Proving,....laughable. It does not have a drag line. Single Six was gifted to me, minus .22WMR cylinder. I promptly located a cylinder on the web and timed it myself with a set of files. As many of you did this before, I'm sure, it's not a big deal to alter the pawl, and the ratchet a bit.
I came to this country 37 years ago, and I never shot any guns with other people. I never went to a gun range (I always had my own). We had 140-acre ranch in Cali, and now 1100 acres in ID. No need to go to a shooting range. Wife and I shoot our own, and are not engaged in any competition, or "camaraderie". I have no knowledge of any other S&W revolvers, except these two I own.
So no,.....I don't profess to be an expert, nor I am a "gunsmith", and I definitely did not come here to insult anyone, or to argue.
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 7, 2022 14:43:33 GMT -5
1horseman.... welcome to Singleactions. Your observations are well intended and well received. With room for correction.
Doubt you offended anyone here. As Lee Martin and others indicate, it is a trait of the Ruger New Model cylinder latch to drop immediately before start of cocking rotation, and to quickly pop up. Whereas, the bolt on the old Colt Peacemaker stays down much longer, then pops up into the ramp or flute of the bolt notch. Bolt (cylinder latch) timing on an old model Ruger mimics bill timing on the Colt.
There are a couple of ways to delay pop-up of the Ruger New Model cylinder latch.
Cylinder latch jargon * Bolt----Colt. * Stop----S&W (also cylinder stop). * Cylinder latch----Ruger. David Bradshaw
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Post by potatojudge on Dec 8, 2022 11:19:47 GMT -5
Any revolver can be made to have a turn line.
Only in some revolvers can a turn line be avoided.
In guns where a turn line can be avoided, you run a higher risk of developing lockup issues as parts wear (or as kitchen table gunsmiths try making "little" tweaks that have a big impact in timing). Most S&W get a drag line right before the cylinder notch leades, but for sure a Smith can be timed to avoid that and perhaps some are (or were) from the factory.
When you see a turn line leading into the cylinder notch from the non-ramped side, either your bolt is timed improperly or somebody is turning the cylinder backwards after closing the loading gate. The improper bolt timing tends to damage the cylinder notch, and is a big red flag. With a clean bolt notch and a turn line leading all the way into the notch, you know someone has turned the cylinder backwards.
In this gun, it's the cylinder has simply been turned backward after closing the loading gate. Not a big deal, and as I said before in the process of prototyping this gun I'm sure it was intentionally handled every which way. Just needs the cylinder blasted and with normal handling in the future it's a non-issue.
Anyway, people can argue all day long on the internet but when you hold a revolver in your hands and work the action it's dead obvious which guns will have a normal turn line and where that turn line will be.
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