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Post by reflex264 on Nov 28, 2022 9:36:24 GMT -5
It is scoped. Been under the weather so not sighted in yet. Shooting it with the break it is still quite a bit more hateful than a .454 but as I have said, it isn't a plinker so not an issue.  Here it is with one of the 550 grains next to a .44 magnum.  |
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Post by webber on Nov 28, 2022 9:44:51 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do?
I have gotten slightly over 1500 with a 550 from a 15 inch TC Encore
From aBFR 7.5 a 515 will get 1450.
Recoil is brisk to say the least.
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Post by lar4570 on Nov 28, 2022 11:39:29 GMT -5
I think the 45-70 has just a little bit more case capacity than the 450 Marlin.
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Post by flyingzebra on Nov 28, 2022 12:09:52 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do? For one thing, the 45/70 doesn't have a belt So, obviously it's pants will always be falling down Certainly something to consider |
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Post by AxeHandle on Nov 28, 2022 12:54:34 GMT -5
450 Marlin vs 45/70? Big thing is the 450 Marlin will not go in the chamber of a rifle that was designed long ago.
" The .45-70 rifle cartridge, also known as the .45-70 Government, was developed at the U.S. Army's Springfield Armory for use in the Springfield Model 1873..."
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Post by junebug on Nov 28, 2022 13:11:39 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do? I have gotten slightly over 1500 with a 550 from a 15 inch TC Encore From aBFR 7.5 a 515 will get 1450. Recoil is brisk to say the least. It won't blow up old trap door Springfield's ,like high pressure 45-70 loads will do. From a little research, reading I did that seems to be the reason it was designed, to give people a hot loaded 45-70 that would not fit the old Trap Door Springfield's. Drop your loads in an old Trap Door and it may last one shot or several but eventually it will spring the action or fail completely. jmo |
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Post by webber on Nov 28, 2022 13:20:51 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do? I have gotten slightly over 1500 with a 550 from a 15 inch TC Encore From aBFR 7.5 a 515 will get 1450. Recoil is brisk to say the least. It won't blow up old trap door Springfield's ,like high pressure 45-70 loads will do. From a little research, reading I did that seems to be the reason it was designed, to give people a hot loaded 45-70 that would not fit the old Trap Door Springfield's. Drop your loads in an old Trap Door and it may last one shot or several but eventually it will spring the action or fail completely. jmo I don't have a TD Springfield. I study on the things I have. A wise person would color code loads if loading for different strength firearms. I know I would. Just like someone with a Charter Arms 44 Special and a 44 Mag revolver. Load heavy 44 Specials in 44 Mag brass deep seated and light 44 Special loads in 44 Special cases for the Charter Arms instead of using 44 Special cases for both heavy 44 Special loads and light loads. Too easy to get them mixed if using the same bullet for both. Please keep in mind I am not implying anything negative about Charter Arms, Just using them as an example. |
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Post by reflex264 on Nov 28, 2022 13:36:14 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do? I have gotten slightly over 1500 with a 550 from a 15 inch TC Encore From aBFR 7.5 a 515 will get 1450. Recoil is brisk to say the least. The .450 operates at 43,000 PSI. The pressure ceiling with the 45-70 as given to me by Hodgdon's lab was 38,000 CUP. We tested both extensively. The .450 was basically designed to be a lawyer friendly 45-70. It was actually supposed to duplicate the 45-70 Marlin loads even though the case capacity was slightly greater by using higher pressures. When doing the pressure work ups with the heavy bullets in the .450 it would beat the 45-70 by between 200 and 300 feet per second with most bullets using 38,000 CUP as the celling. There were a few exceptions to the rules during the tests. A few bullets would actually travel just slightly faster from the 45-70. This has more to do with bullet friction extending the pressure curve than with peak pressures. On the other hand the bullets with which the .450 had the higher velocities it generally beat the 45-70 by a wide margin. I am curious what load data you used with the 550 grains bullets in your Encore and if it was pressure tested. Also was the data that achieved 1450 fps with the 515 grain in the BFR pressure tested? If so I would love to have the info. |
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Post by reflex264 on Nov 28, 2022 13:44:57 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do? I have gotten slightly over 1500 with a 550 from a 15 inch TC Encore From aBFR 7.5 a 515 will get 1450. Recoil is brisk to say the least. One more quick note. The 550gr bullet pictured is a bore rider design which opens up case capacity. Using this bullet in the .450 with data generating 43,000 PSI adds another nearly 150 fps. |
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Post by magnumwheelman on Nov 28, 2022 13:50:48 GMT -5
I still have several calibers in various strength of actions... I always used a "specific" brand of case for each rifle, & only used those... of course always wrote the recipe on the cartridge box, & if there could be an corn fusion the gun the cartridges were loaded for, the gun was also written on the cartridge box, in the recipe... currently 30-30, & 45-70 are the only rifle / Handgun combos, but I did the same for 32 & 38 S&W, as there could be a huge difference in the pressures the various guns I have / had, that could chamber those cartridges...
as for difference between the Marlin & the 45-70, with handloading, they are pretty much dead even... but you certainly wouldn't want to put a Rocks & Dynamite Marlin Guide gun, 45-70 loaded cartridge, into a Contender... so the Marlin case offers a margin of safety, & if you don't handload... warmer 45-70 factory loadings are less common, so the 450 Marlin, is usually much hotter in factory ammo, unless you are looking at specialty 45-70 ammo
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Post by webber on Nov 28, 2022 16:04:11 GMT -5
Refles264 PM sent
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Post by reflex264 on Nov 28, 2022 17:04:36 GMT -5
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Post by handloadingnotes on Dec 13, 2022 0:41:45 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity what will the 450 Marlin do that the 45/70 won't do? To summarize the "Why the 450 marlin is a superior invention" chapter from "McPherson On Leverguns". Necking up a 45-70 to .475 caliber or Ackley Improving the case seems like a better solution if the only goal is to keep hot loads out of a weak old 45-70 gun. But there are some advantages to the new cartridge in a lever gun. The narrower belt on the 450 Marlin allowed a smaller ejection port and magazine tube, which help general loading and alignment in the tube. The smaller rim helped action feel a tad better, and allowed a better thread design in the barrel so it has more of a safety margin. The case walls are thicker and should last longer. I don't have any practical experience in this, just sharing what I've read. It also struck me as odd to have a new round I can't buy on the shelf that essentially duplicated Buffalo Bore ammunition I can buy. These are the reasons I've found. Anecdotally I've never seen a 450 Marlin in person at a gun store, so I guess we aren't the only ones who were confused  . |
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Post by reflex264 on Jan 3, 2023 12:35:59 GMT -5
I finally got it sighted in. The first and only load I tried in it with the scope shot right at 1" at 100 yards. It was with the 300 grain Hornady JHP. I truthfully expect it to do better than that. We will see.
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