.45 Colt / .45 ACP impressions?

[reflex264]

I have been looking at the the Redhawk 4' .45s and I see these more often than the plain .45 Colts.
Does anyone here have any experience with them?

[taffin]

Ruger’s Versatile Redhawk .45Colt/. 45ACP
By John Taffin

.44 or .45? I do not like making such difficult decisions. When my Book of the .44 arrived in 2006 most folks thought I had settled the question for myself. However, as soon as I finished the .44 book I started outlining and planning for The Book of the .45. I've always had a difficult time choosing between a .44 or .45 until I decided my motto would always be "Buy ‘Em Both”; it certainly simplified things for me. Elmer Keith started his writing career using a .45 Colt, switched to the .44 Special and spent nearly 30 years touting it as the all-around cartridge, and then when it resulted in the arrival of the .44 Magnum he daily packed the Magnum sixgun until his dehabilitating stroke in 1981. As a member of the Elmer Keith Museum Foundation it was my privilege to go through all of his sixguns and it should not come as any surprise I found several of them loaded. One of them was a .45 Colt Single Action Army with five black powder rounds in the cylinder. So Keith never totally gave up on the .45. In fact, long after the .357 Magnum had arrived and 30 years after he discovered the .44 Special he still said if he had only factory rounds to choose from he would take the .45. That was 1955 and ammunition certainly has changed since then. I also find it quite interesting perhaps even significant the dust jacket of his book Sixguns from that same year has a picture of Charlie Russell’s painting "Smoke of the .45."
Skeeter Skelton had a soft spot in his sixgunning soul for the .44 special, a very large spot, however he also had room for the .45 Colt. Mention Jeff Cooper and one immediately thinks of the .45 ACP 1911, however Col. Cooper also appreciated and shot the Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum. Dick Casull started the experiments with the .45 Colt which eventually led to the .454 Casull way back in the 1950s, however I have personally fired his custom cylindered Colt Single Action .44 Magnum. John Linebaugh has produced some very powerful sixguns chambered in .475 and .500 Linebaugh, but he started with Heavy Duty .45 Colts and his every day packing gun for all the years I've known him as been first a 4” Model 25-5 Smith & Wesson and now that same company’s .45 Colt Mountain Gun. He chooses Smith & Wesson but goes with the Colt cartridge. .44 or .45? It remains a most difficult decision with the only reasonable choice being to “Buy “Em Both”.
In 1992 while on assignment touring gunmakers in the East, I found myself in Bill Ruger's office to conduct an interview. During our conversation I asked Bill Ruger about bringing out a .45 Colt Redhawk. I have no way of knowing if it had any bearing on the decision but I at least like to think the fact we now have a Redhawk chambered in the grand old cartridge had something to do with our conversation that day. Over the years the Redhawk had been offered in .357 Magnum and .41 Magnum in addition to the standard .44 Magnum offering. The two former chamberings are now long gone but the big .44 has been joined by the .45 Colt. The Redhawk .44 Magnum is a very strong sixgun, along with its brother the Super Redhawk probably the strongest double action .44 Magnums ever offered to sixgunners. Since the .45 Colt is built on the same platform, it is also probably the sturdiest double action .45 ever offered to shooters. The .45 Redhawk has been available in both the easy packin' 5 1/2" version, as well as 7 1/2" models both with and without the factory scope option that consists of two scallops on the barrel that accept Ruger scope rings.
Not only has there been a long standing conversation about rather to pick a .44 or .45, there is also the problem should one go with a .45 whether it should be the original .45 Colt or the more “modern” .45 ACP. If one confines oneself to semi-automatics there is nothing to even think about as the .45 ACP unarguably remains the best cartridge ever offered for serious purposes in the best companion pistol, the 1911. However, if one is a dedicated sixgunner the choice becomes more difficult as whether we should go with the .45 Colt or .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim. The decision becomes a no decision when it comes to single action sixguns as it is so easy to add a .45 ACP cylinder to a .45 Colt sixgun. This works especially well if the gun happens to have adjustable sights. Ruger has long been offered the Blackhawk with both cylinders and recently the excellent New Model Flat-Top Convertible .45/.45 ACP in both blue and stainless steel versions.
When it comes to double action sixguns the choice usually is to go with one or the other chamberings unless one can find a very rare double action sixgun with both cylinders. Two .45 cylinders in a single action revolver is simplicity in itself as one only has to pull the base pin forward, remove one cylinder, replace it with a second cylinder, and push the base pin back into place. Takes less time to do that it does to describe it. Not so with the double action revolver. The simplest way, although more expensive, is to have two cylinder assemblies both complete with the cylinder yoke. Instead, most double action shooters simply choose a .45 Colt sixgun or one chambered for the .45 ACP/.45 Auto Rim. Ruger has now simplified everything by offering the Convertible Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP which virtually does the impossible. That is, this most interesting Redhawk does not have two cylinders, one for each .45, but rather uses the same cylinder for each cartridge. This may sound simple on the surface however it is not.
The .45 Colt is a rimmed cartridge with the rim catching on the back of the cylinder and providing the headspace. Once the cartridges are fired a push on the extractor allows the star on the back of the cylinder to engage the rims of the cartridges allowing easy extraction. This doesn’t work with the .45 ACP as there is no rim for the star to engage. This has been solved by the use of moon clips. These clips, which are normally half-moon holding three cartridges or full-moon holding all six, allow for headspace as well as easy extraction. In single action .45 ACP cylinders there is a shoulder in the cylinder which is contacted by the mouth of the cartridge case to provide headspace and then the ejector rod allows for extraction of cartridges one at a time. Most double action sixguns chambered for the .45 ACP provide the same shoulder in the chamber which allows for headspace and firing, however fired cartridges that must be picked out one at a time using a fingernail or a rod of some kind.
Ruger’s Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP now allows both cartridges to be fired in the same cylinder. This is not all that easy to accomplish. Just as with any other double action revolver the .45 Colt rim on the back of the cylinder provides headspace and easy extraction, however the .45 ACP cartridge, as mentioned, requires moon clips. These clips, usually of the half-moon variety have been around since WWI and they are quite easy to find and also relatively inexpensive, however they are too thick for use in the Redhawk. Ruger offers full-moon clips of the proper thickness and also clips that are vastly improved. They are thin enough and also slotted between cartridges which allows very easy insertion of the .45 ACP cartridges. They are available only from Ruger, at least at this time, and they are definitely not inexpensive. My fingers, however are much appreciative of how easy they are to load.
Okay we now have both .45 Colt and .45 ACP cartridges with the latter loaded in moon clips and we are ready to shoot. Now comes the major problem, there is no shelf in the cylinder to catch the mouth of the .45 ACP cartridge. Instead it is chambered for the .45 Colt and right in front of the mouth of the .45 Colt cartridge the diameter of the chamber is smaller to accept the fired bullet. The part of the cylinder which accepts the .45 Colt cartridge is made to accept the case diameter of .480” and the smaller diameter in front of the case should be around .451”-.452” in diameter. The .45 Colt cartridge case has a length of 1.290” while the .45 ACP cartridge case is .898”. What this means is when the .45 ACP cartridge is fired there is a free-bore length of approximately four-tenths of an inch for the .451” bullet to rattle in a .480” tunnel. Does it work?
This sixgun is fascinating enough in its concept for me to spend a lot of time shooting both .45 Colt and .45 ACP cartridges loaded in Ruger moon clips. With the .45 Colt I used 25 different examples of both handloads and factory cartridges. There was no problem whatsoever with accuracy with many of my handloads getting down to the one-inch neighborhood at 20 yards for five shots and my duplication of the original load using the 255 grain flat nosed conical bullet from an old Lachmiller mold over 8.0 grains of unique clocked out at 850 fps from the short-barreled Redhawk and groups five shots in 7/8”. With the .45 ACP more than 20 loads were used with both handloads and factory loads. Now it became really interesting!
Suddenly things were not quite so simple. Remember that free bore tunnel as it has a very major effect. Many loads at 20 yards for five shots were in the 2-1/2”to 3” category. Certainly not a tack driver but would work fine for self-defense work. On the other hand some loads were even more accurate than some of the .45 Colt loads. The most accurate load found with both cartridges was the Buffalo Bore 180 Hard Cast Low Recoil load at 725 fps and a group of 3/4". Buffalo Bore’s other Low Recoil load, a 200 grain Hard Cast clocked out 75 fps slower with a group of 1-3/8”which was duplicated by the HPR 185 JHP at 775 fps. All of these loads are made for self-defense and worked quite well in the Ruger Redhawk.
Some loads would not work at all, especially handloads using 255 grain bullets. Most of these key holed, that is hit the target sideways, even close up at 7 yards. The conclusion is the .45 ACP will certainly work in the .45 Colt cylinder of the Redhawk, however loads must be chosen carefully. All my results are in the accompanying table.
Other cartridges besides the .45 Colt and the .45 ACP will also work in the Redhawk cylinder using the Ruger full-moon clips. These include the .460 Rowland, the .45 Super, and the .45 WinMag. With the .45 Rowland I was careful to stay away from some of the heavy handloads I have on hand and instead tried the Buffalo Bore 230 FMJ. This load is just under 1,200 fps from the 4” Redhawk and puts five shots in 1-1/2” at 20 yards. The .45 Rowland has a case length of .955” making it slightly longer than the .45 ACP. The .45 Super did not work at all. My seat-of-the-pants guess is the velocities are just too high for the bullets to make it through the length of the cylinder without tumbling or perhaps they slammed into the cylinder ledge in front of the .45 Colt cartridge way too fast. All loads key-holed on the target.
.45 WinMag cartridge cases are slightly shorter than the .45 Colt, 1.198” as opposed to 1.290” and I expected them to perform relatively well. My handload of the Oregon Trail 255 SWC over 8.0 grains of Unique clocked out over 925 fps with a 1” group with five shots at 20 yards. I also tried the Black Hills 230 JHP, 1,150 fps and 1-7/8”, and the Winchester 250 JHP for the same velocity and group size. Most people assume the .45 WinMag is simply a longer .45 ACP; this is definitely not the case. When trying to use the .45 WinMag in the Ruger full-moon clips a problem quickly arises. They will fit, however they put a squeeze on the fingers preventing all six cartridges to fully enter the cylinder. All of the loads in the chart used Winchester .45 WM brass which is larger in diameter at the extractor cut in the base than .45 ACP. In fact for handloading the regular .45 ACP shell holder will not work but the .30-30 shell holder will. To solve the problem my friend Denis used a Dremel cut-off wheel to turn full-moon clips into three one-third moon clips and then took some material off of each side of the clip which allowed all three to drop easily into the cylinder. The rim area of Starline .45 WM brass is closer to .45 ACP in size and six will fit in the full-moon clips and enter the cylinder. I was especially careful to stay away from some of the very heavy loads which are out there and use only the more moderate loads from Black Hills and Winchester.
The advent of the Ruger Redhawk in the early 1980s truly changed double action sixgunning. It broke the back of the Black Market situation which existed at the time with .44 Magnum revolvers. Prior to the Redhawk’s arrival the only double action revolver chambered in the .44 was from Smith & Wesson and a demand created by Clint Eastwood’s portrayal of Dirty Harry had made them virtually impossible to find without paying exorbitant prices. Not only did the Ruger Redhawk change all this it was, and is, the strongest double action .44 Magnum ever offered. We can say the same thing as far as strength about the .45 Redhawk. My friend Ashley Emerson of Garrett Cartridges of Texas has been using my 7-1/2” .45 Colt Redhawk for experimenting with his Heavy .45 Colt loads. The Redhawk is up to the task. With the arrival of the Convertible Redhawk a new chapter begins. My “Buy ‘Em Both” no longer applies when it comes to choosing a .45 Colt or .45 ACP sixgun. We now get two for the price of one.
If I found it necessary to carry a double action sixgun openly in all kinds of weather I would have to look no further than the stainless steel Redhawk. It is virtually indestructible and always works. With the newest Redhawk I believe I would start with six rounds of .45 Colt loads backed up by two full-moon clips of .45 ACP rounds in my jacket pocket. This sixgun not only carries comfortably in a pancake-style holster, it is also very comforting to have as I cannot think of any situation where I normally roam which cannot be handled with this combination.


COMPLETE TEST RESULTS
.45 COLT
Test-Fire: Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt x 4”
Handloaded Ammo Performance
Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Group Size
CPBC 265 WFNGC Unique 10.0 gr. 1,017 fps 1-3/4”
Lachmiller #45-255FN Unique 8.0 gr 847 fps 7/8”
Lyman #452424SWC Unique 8.0 gr. 806 fps 1”
Lyman #452424SWC Unique 9.0 gr. 911 fps 1-1/2”
Lyman #452424SWC Unique 10.0 gr. 968 fps 2”
Lyman #454424KT Unique 8.0 gr. 904 fps 1-1/4”
Lyman #454424KT Unique 10.0 gr. 1,000 fps 1-1/4”
Lyman #454424KT IMR4227 18.0 gr. 801 fps 1-1/2”
Lyman #454424KT IMR4227 20.0 gr. 858 fps 1-1/4”
Lyman #454424HP #2400 18.5 gr. 1,072 fps 1-1/4”
Lyman #454309WC Unique 8.5 gr. 892 fps 1-3/4”
Oregon Trail 255SWC Unique 9.0 gr. 976 fps 1-5/8”
Oregon Trail 255SWC Universal 8.0 gr. 835 fps 1”
Oregon Trail 255SWC IMR4227 20.0 gr. 878 fps 1-1/8”
Oregon Trail 255SWC XMP5744 17.0 gr. 690 fps 1-1/4”
Rim Rock #45-255GC Universal 8.5 gr. 883 fps 1-1/8”
Rim Rock #45-255GC IMR4227 20.0 gr. 910 fps 1-5/8”
RCBS #45-255KTHP IMR4227 20.0 gr. 899 fps 1-7/8”
RCBS #45-255KT IMR4227 20.0 gr. 921 fps 1”
RCBS #45-270SAA Unique 8.5 gr. 860 fps 1-1/2”
Notes: Groups the product of 5 of 6 shots at 20 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10 feet from muzzle. CCI #300 primers used in Starline brass.
Factory Ammo Performance
Load Velocity Group Size
Black Hills 250 RNFP 708 fps 1-7/8”
Federal 225 LSWCHP 737 fps 1-3/4”
HPR 250 TMJ 874 fps 1-1/2”
Garrett Cartridges of Texas +P 265 HammerHead 910 fps 1-1/2”
Garrett Cartridges of Texas +P 365 LFR HammerHead 1,062 fps 2”
Notes: Groups the product of best 5 of 6 shots at 20 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10’ from muzzle.



.45 ACP
Test-Fire: Ruger Redhawk .45ACP x 4”
Factory Ammo Performance
Load Velocity Group Size
Black Hills 230 JHP +P 778 fps 2-3/4”
Black Hills 185 JHP 764 fps 2”
Black Hills 185 Nosler Tactical JHP 784 fps 1-3/4”
Buffalo Bore 200HC Low Recoil 654 fps 1-3/8”
Buffalo Bore 180 HC Low Recoil 724 fps 3/4"
Cor-Bon 185 JHP +P 961 fps 2-1/2”
Cor-Bon 230 JHP +P 845 fps 2-1/2”
Double Tap 225 HC 778 fps 1-5/8”
Double Tap 200 JHP Low Recoil 716 fps 1-3/4”
HPR 185 JHP 776 fps 1-3/8”
HPR 230 JHP 743 fps 2-3/4”
Hornady 185 Z-Max 830 fps 3”
Hornady 200 XTP JHP 744 fps 2-1/2”
Remington 230 FMJ 691 fps 2-1/8”
Winchester185 FMJ 755 fps 3”
Notes: Groups the product of best 5 of 6 shots at 20 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10’ from muzzle.

Handloaded Ammo Performance
Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Group Size
Oregon Trail 255 SWC Universal 5.1 gr. 758 fps 1-1/2”
Oregon Trail 255 SWC Universal 6.1 gr. 838 fps 2” Keyholes!
Oregon Trail 255 SWC Unique 5.0 gr. 747 fps 1”
Oregon Trail 255 SWC Unique 5.5 gr. 786 fps 1-3/4”
Oregon Trail 255 SWC Unique 6.0 gr. 821 fps 1-1/2” Keyholes!
Lyman #454424KT Unique 6.2 gr. 806 fps 1-3/4” Keyholes!
Notes: Groups the product of 5 of 6 shots at 7 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10 feet from muzzle. CCI #300 primers used in mixed brass. ALL of these loads keyhole(hit the target sideways) at 20 Yards.

Handloaded Ammo Performance
Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Group Size
Oregon Trail 225 RN Bullseye 5.0 gr. 688 fps 1-1/2”
Oregon Trail 200 SWC Bullseye 4.0 gr. 704 fps 7/8”
Notes: Groups the product of 5 of 6 shots at 20 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10 feet from muzzle. CCI #300 primers used in mixed brass.

.45 WINCHESTER MAGNUM
Test-Fire: Ruger Redhawk .45ACP x 4” with .45 WinMag Loads
Factory Ammo Performance
Load Velocity Group Size
Black Hills 230 JHP 1,151 fps 1-7/8”
Winchester 250 JHP 1,169 fps 2”
Notes: Groups the product of best 5 of 6 shots at 20 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10’ from
muzzle.
Handloaded Ammo Performance
Bullet Powder Charge Velocity Group Size
Oregon Trail 255 SWC Unique 8.0 gr. 928 fps 1”
Notes: Groups the product of 5 of 6 shots at 20 yards. Chronograph screens set at 10 feet from muzzle. CCI #300 primers used in Winchester brass.

Handgun: Redhawk
Maker: Ruger
Action Type: Double Action
Caliber: .45 Colt/.45 ACP
Capacity: Six Rounds
Barrel Length: 4.4”
Overall Length: 9.5”
Weight: 44 Ounces
Finish: Stainless Steel
Sights: Ruger Adjustable Rear; Red Insert Front
Grips: Lasered Hardwood
Price: $1029

[boolitdesigner]

Nov 17, 2022 18:08:56 GMT -5 taffin said:

Ruger’s Versatile Redhawk .45Colt/. 45ACP
Handgun: Redhawk
Maker: Ruger
Action Type: Double Action
Caliber: .45 Colt/.45 ACP
Capacity: Six Rounds
Barrel Length: 4.4”
Overall Length: 9.5”
Weight: 44 Ounces
Finish: Stainless Steel
Sights: Ruger Adjustable Rear; Red Insert Front
Grips: Lasered Hardwood
Price: $1029

There is a reasonable alternate for the 45 ACP in this sixgun. You might try the MP molds: 455 Webley (Man Stopper), HB; 455 Webley (Mk2), HB; or the MP 452 HB Wad Cutter molds to load.                                www.mp-molds.com/product-category/molds/hollow-base-molds/
All these hollow base bullets cast fairly soft shoot very well in the dual cartridge Redhawk with no keyholes and normal accuracy.

[45bbh]

I had one and really didn't care much for it, seemed to me the velocity took a nose dive when shooting 45 ACP and to be honest the Redhawk's trigger isn't the best out there. Some people may love it, I didn't.

[campfire]

Can't remember where, but I believe that I read that the round butt grip frame wasn't as controllable with heavier .45 colt loads as the square butt. I found a square butt 4" .45 colt and thoroughly enjoy it. To me it came down to the fact that I shoot more colt than acp and wanted the best grip shape for the biggest variety of 45 colt loads.

[x101airborne]

I have one and carry it often enough. Killed a wounded rotten buck with it to put it out of it's misery. I cant complain about the recoil or the accuracy even with top end Ruger Only loads. Only time I use ACP loads in mine is for trapped hogs. I have not tested velocity but it works and that is enough for me to keep it around.